Derail abiut gun rarity

Game Talk The Drawing Board
21

I’m not sure if I’m once again misreading, but it seems you are looking for a separate game.
Cdda is built around zombies, and it removes a large gameplay aspect if they were removed.
Also if everything was based completely on realism there goes 80% of the game and 99% of the enemies.
Yes the game can work on being more realistic, and improve the A.I. but removing everything that’s not currently perfected is just a bad idea, idk how to phrase it differently.

If you are looking for a game that’s just finding guns and shooting. Then this probably isn’t the right game for you. Because as far as I can tell that’s what you’ve been trying to get at. It wouldn’t be a game though if it’s just supposed to be 100% real life

22

I’ve played this game and there is a lot more to it than zombies and fantasy creatures. I didn’t even advocate for an abundance of ammunition so your comment is disingenuous. The only reason I said anything about guns was because people were concerned that they would break too often if used for melee combat and blocking. I pointed out that there should be more guns anyway, so it wouldn’t really matter. More than 80% of the game is inventory, crafting, and exploration. I wouldn’t call any of it perfected, especially not the zombies.

23

The main issue I’m having right now is you insisting this is what DDA should be, remove the cosmic horror and the unnatural stuff and revamp the entirety of it since apparantly BN already has it covered. I’m receptive to the setting you want, as an overhaul mod, heck if you want it to be more you could try to have it forked, but wanting it to be what DDA is sounds too far fetched to me.

The realism is a goal of the devs because in this game your character is on Earth, your character is human in the very beginning. And the main threat is an outsider to our reality, they are unnatural to this world which is far different from being unrealistic, because the horror you are fighting is very much real. So no, unnatural being unrealistic is not the same thing in this setting.

24

We have different opinions. I wouldn’t worry much since the current game is already what you want.

25

Actually, why should the most realistic version of the game be a mod?
I’m going to double down and challenge that. We have a bright nights fork which is doing cosmic horror. The main game really ought to be the most observably accurate simulation of real life because then the mods are all building on a relatable base that is not crazy. My understanding is that there are prehistoric mods, medieval mods, space mods, and more. Every mod should not be faced with the challenge of undoing the crazy stuff that exists in the current b-movie science fiction and fantasy game. Let the mods begin with a semblance of reality and add their own twist.

26

Counterpoint, the main game should be what I want it to be because I’m the one making it happen.
You can feel free to make your own even more realistic version if you like, but you’re trying to talk me out of doing a thing I’ve spent ten years working on, good luck with that.

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27

Fair play and props to you for making this game. I’m actually trying to talk you into moving the unrealistic stuff, like zombies, into a mod. Then this thing you have been doing for 10 years would become even more easily modded and it would be a better base for a lot of different games.

The base game might not even need a story or monsters or anything, just functional NPCs trying to survive on whatever map they are given. Then you would have a simulation and the default game would be the mod you’re building: “Dark Days Ahead.”

28

I’m pretty sure what BN is doing is sci-fi. It didn’t become a fork because some people wanted it to become more cosmic horror, but because of the more sci-fi things being removed in DDA, among other things of course.

And “the most realitstic” version of the game can be a fork if you really hate it being a mod that much. Just not DDA, as I’ve repeatedly been saying. There are so many reasons both practical and personal for your suggestion for this to become DDA to be the thing unrealistic here. You can get Cataclysm: Hunger Days if ya want, just don’t replace DDA with it.

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29

There are so many reasons both practical and personal for your suggestion for this to become DDA to be the thing unrealistic here.

I don’t know why we’re still arguing about this. I have an opinion, you have a different one. You haven’t really provided many if any reasons.

Based on what you’re saying it follows that Cataclysm would be the base simulation and the default mod, DDA, would be cosmic horror mod while BN is a science fiction mod and there are many more. Yeah, the “Hunger Days” idea would be a mod too.

I can see that you feel passionately about keeping everything the same, but are we saying anything new in this conversation?

30

Yeah sure. Its not like its gonna happen anyways, just gobsmacked at your plan to convince the main dev to make the content of his own game sidelined, dunno how you would’ve succeeded that but that alternate timeline must’ve been wild.

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31

See this is where your argument falls apart, there’s nothing in it for me. My goal is making the game I want to make, not making a game engine so other people can make games. The game is as moddable as it is because that’s the right way to make it easy to maintain, being able to make variants is a happy side effect, not the main goal.

It’s a common mistake to assume that projects always want more users, but please take some time to think about this, what am I going to do with more users? What’s in it for me? I don’t mean tell me why I should want more users, I already know I don’t. Just try to think of it from my perspective.

32

Here we have a whole forum full of people suggesting changes they would like to see in the game. This is the point of the forum as it is described, but it also has some entertaining posts such as the talented artwork and stories about the tentacle legged woman. I didn’t come here to convince anyone about anything. I had a few questions about the game that were not bugs or feature requests. I have posted bug reports and feature requests on the github. A lot of people have expressed opinions about the game here and I have joined in the discussion. Did I post anything here as a feature request? Did I tell you how to build the game? No. I asked questions, I talked about my experience with the game, I remarked on a few of the discussions started by others, and I shared my opinions about things that I wish were different.

Here we are in a derail about a derail about a topic that I didn’t even start and although I am willing to defend my opinions I am really not sure why we can’t have different opinions and let it be.

@kevin.granade
I am aware that you are the lead developer, but I don’t know how much other people are contributing. Somewhere along the line I got the impression that this is already a project with 1000+ contributors. With that, possibly erroneous, viewpoint my comments have been directed to the entire team and anyone who is following this discussion.

There is a list of mods and it is not difficult to imagine that there could be more if the starting point didn’t involve changing core game features. You said yourself, “that’s the right way to make it easy to maintain,” so if the zombies and such are not already packaged as a mod then I wonder why not. If any behavior must be built into the game, my latest argument is that it should be the most realistic behavior.

If there were a “maximum realism” mod with no monsters and no plot then I think a lot of other mods would rather begin with that base rather than the DDA or BN bases. Did I ask you to go back and make such a thing? No, I expressed an opinion. DDA could be mod based on a “maximum realism” mod, but it isn’t. I have read in multiple places that DDA, under your (keven.granade) direction is striving to be more realistic than BN. If it was your goal then I think I would enjoy the game more. If I convinced you to reshape DDA into a “maximum realism” base mode I would be thrilled. We would have two distinct games and one would be a version of my personal vision. I thought you may have been moving in that direction already, but if not, then it is what it is and it is only going to be what the developers make it.

I understand that when I talk about Cataclysm becoming a base for a lot of different mods/games that implies a lot more players/users as well. Perhaps users are more trouble than they are worth. If a larger userbase cannot be monetized then more users would consume more of your energy rather than less. If a larger userbase doesn’t result in more programmers contributing to the project then more users would only surface more problems. If you can’t direct the input from a larger development team then a larger userbase might change the game into something you don’t like. If you can’t monetize the game, build a development team, and direct it then users are simply a nuisance. If you want to do it all yourself then a proliferation of modders and a bigger community of players who are attracted to the alternative experiences they produce might sound dreadful.

My opinion remains unchanged. The game would be better if it was more realistic and if it was more about NPC agents in a simulated world. Guns are pretty durable and they could be used like clubs. In the USA, there would probably be more guns than we see in the current game, but they might be short on ammunition. (If this isn’t the direction that the base game is heading toward, then it would be a cool mod.) Hyper-realism would make an ideal base for most mods because although there will be arguments about what is and isn’t realistic most people will agree that there are not any zombies or magical monsters in the real world. If the base game was focused on realism then DDA as the default mod could be whatever it wants to be and the other mods could diverge further from the DDA model because there would be less coupling.

Those are my opinions, yours may vary.

If the base game “engine” has no opinions built in and if there was a “realistic base mod” that defined the features and behavior which are most likely to be accepted as realistic, is there currently a way to base a mod on another mod in such a way that all of the divergent mods can cooperatively contribute to the “realistic base mod” and write their “game mod” in separate files which add to and only selectively override the files in the “base mod”?

  • top. game mod such as “BN”, “DDA”, or “StarvedEarth” which overlays a base layer mod
  • middle. realistic base mod which can be updated as a package without breaking the overlayed game mod
  • bottom. game engine which loads mods

If it works this way then even widely divergent mod authors would share a common interest in improving and maintaining the lower two levels.

33

Yes, you did.

That would be because you haven’t stopped posting.

You might want to reconsider how you’re approaching this. I made a very specific request here and you’ve ignored it, which means this isn’t a conversation, its just you repeating yourself. The contradicting yourself isn’t a great look either.

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