Cyborg Threshold

[arzhul]

Update

After taking all the posts in mind here’s the plan, keep in mind numbers will probably change.

I’ll start coding the pre-cyborg stuff.
-After 10 CBMs you will occasionally hear static noises, every additional CBM adding to this probability.
-After minimum 15 CBMs you will occasionally imagine things or people talk to you or react in ways that affect your morale. (Cyberpsychosis) This is the CBMs interferring with your brain.
-After 20 CBMs there’s a chance instead of the static noise you will get a clear signal with coordinates.

The mission and generation tweaks are going to take awhile, I haven’t touched that stuff yet.

Then, starting Cyborg perks
-Behavioural Chip
This makes robots neutral to you and npcs hostile. You get morale penality for destroying those but you can
kill meatbags at will.

-Cybernetic Core
Many internal organs were replaced by their cybernetic counterparts.
As long as you have power you do not need to eat or drink but if you ever run out
your organs will start failing causing damage and soon enough death.
This disables hyperbolic interchange.

-Modular Being
You can install and remove CBMs without any chance to fail.

The post thresh progression is to find special CBMs that replace
your entire limb giving various bonuses with some drawbacks but cannot be installed if you haven’t breached.
Goal with this is to bring it on par with the mutations.

========
Hi everyone, I’ve been thinking about working on this.
Basically once you had enough CBMs installed (rare ones counting more while broken ones not counting).
You’d get a dream about a factory untouched by the hand of man and remember it’s location upon waking. (Mission)
Then arriving at the factory you’d have parts of a cyborg power back on and give you the details about the factory.
It’s overrun by invaders (not sure about which one would make a nice fit) and its lost power.
You’d have to repair the generator, hack a console to bring power up.

At that points robots would spawn and fight everything (invaders and player alike) and the cyborg contacts you again.
You get the choice to initiate the self destruct of the factory and then escape (preventing you from breaching the threshold)
or you could make your way to a special experimental pod for shredding your humanity becoming a true cyborg.

Not sure about which advantages would not be too OP but it should get rid of some human needs, either the need for food
using Power instead (running out causing “death” if you are in no position to recover like outside with solar panels)
or maybe Sleep, causing you to shut down and regenerate when you lose it all.
You would also gain Cybernetics mastery, making it impossible to fail the installation of a CBM.
At this points robots would be friendly to you.

I think at some point it would be good to have a limit of how many CBMs you can install and have this threshold boost the limit up a bit. Then maybe you could find special CBMs that would require you to be a true cyborg to install.
Acting like finishing a mutation line, so it would also prevent you from mutating.

What do you guys think?

[troll_from_behind]

Intresting, but you could also start getting psychological issues earlier, the good olde “cyberpsychosis”?

[Shopkeeper]

Intresting, but you could also start getting psychological issues earlier, the good olde “cyberpsychosis”?

^ This. I could see a unique form of Cyber Schizophrenia i[/i] that could occur as you jam more and more Bionics into yourself. If you breech the Cyborg threshold it goes away because you’ve become at peace with your cybernetic humanity.

[Sgtanarchy]

I really like this idea. I’ve always wanted a end-game cyborg event or something similar to crossing a threshold. Someone should PR it.

[kevin.granade]

Everything but the dream as the intro, it kind of makes sense for mutations, but it doesn’t make much sense for bionics.
I think for bionics it’d make more sense to have a “strange radio signal” that is just noise unless you’re close enough to the threshold, at which point it starts making sense to you.

[Muaddib]

Instead of a mutation dream, you could have Kevin’s radio noise sussing you to sleep instead. That way it’s close to a mutation dream, but not really a dream.

[joxer]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:5, topic:9754”]Everything but the dream as the intro, it kind of makes sense for mutations, but it doesn’t make much sense for bionics.
I think for bionics it’d make more sense to have a “strange radio signal” that is just noise unless you’re close enough to the threshold, at which point it starts making sense to you.[/quote]

bionics do link into the survivor neurologically, Altho the connection was meant to be one-way at some point the survivors subconscious mind began understanding the binary algorithms and scanned through the bionics as a part of it. Assuming the bionics were not “dead” (of power) And sufficiently important to have a form of GPS tracker embedded into them. The dream may refer to the GPS data sent to the satellite ( Pre-cataclysm ) Once the survivor has enough of them, He/she is able to reverse that path

[troll_from_behind]

Messages from radio sound a bit too much fantasy to fit into Cata’s universe imo.

[joxer]

Messages from radio sound a bit too much fantasy to fit into Cata’s universe imo.

Altho there are already radio messeges in the game ( FEMA camps being the only ones i’ve been able to properly intercept however )

I’ve gotta say more of those, some perhaps more useful than others. would be quite interesting aswell.

The only doubtful concept i see is why a CBM factory would be sending out radio signals.

[Sgtanarchy]

I think the radio message that Kevin recommended are a great starting point to build something off of for the mod. I like the idea for a few reasons.

1: Like Joxer said, there are already radio messages flying through the air waves. From FEMA camps to national emergency radio broadcasts. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility to somehow, either subconsciously, or through the combined efforts of enough CBM’s to locate a hidden frequency, a rare and encoded messaged being broadcasted, yet very faint.

2: And in the same way you find FEMA camps through radios, (through walking in a direction till you find the right direction that makes the signal stronger and clearer.) you could find the source of this hidden signal. And finally, it’s message.

3: The use of a Radio signal seems to fit the mechanical and cyborg type theme that having a bunch of CBM’s entails.

There could also be other threshold moments to. For example, when you go to sleep one night, after having finally installed enough CBM’s in total. You wake up in a completely different place, and hear a voice in your ear that states “Recall of Potential Terror Threat Complete” and this can be based off the theory, that the manufacturers of the CBM’s built in a fail safe, that if a user has enough neural, and physical CBM’s installed, they are automatically recalled and they will unconsciously and automatically go to a secret location where they are detained in a facility, for questioning behind their massive amounts of CBM’s due to them now becoming a nation security threat with so many installed. This works for a few reasons.

1: With the cerebral boosters, memory enhancers, etc etc, who says the manufacturers didn’t put in tracking, and hidden automated recall programs that engage and connect to the detaining facility to recall the person who has become a threat due to the high amounts of military grade CBM’s now installed.

2: Instead of having your CBM’s removed, and being question, you are now in a secret government facility lying in a bed, with no one to preform any procedures on you, and hence your journey through the facility can begin because everyone is either dead or zombified.

Anyways, just a thought.

[arzhul]

What about changes to the CBM system itself?
I think it should not be possible to install an infinite amount of CBMs and have a sort of slot system.
Example,
You could only have one CBM that affects the eye installed as a human.
To change it you have to do the surgery and risk death (as removing cbms is right now).
If you were to reach the true cyborg and replace your eyes by a special cybernetic counterpart (aka mutating for cyborgs)
You’d get an extra slot for an additional CBM and be able to swap them as desired with no risk.
Same for other limbs as would be appropriate.

Swapping a bodypart could also bring more effects, like permanent encumbrance, armor increase or whatever.

I’d also change the power system, being able to install an infinite amount of power isn’t very good for balance.
Why not replace the numerous power cbms with having one slot for an active power system that you upgrade with better parts.
Example, instead of having those 100 power cbms you’d have a basic power system that would give you 250.
Thats it, you can’t stack but if you find a better alternative you could get 500 instead by replacing it.
Then as you swap your core for the cybernetic one you’d be able to install another power pack or have a unique Cyborg Cbm (limited to those who have removed the taint of humanity).

This way you’d actually think about which CBMs to install and if you’re willing to go all the way.

I’d also like to swap alignment on the player once you reach the cyborg status, basically you could kill NPCs with no after thought
but destroying a robot (that is neutral or allied) would give you a morale penality.
That way the player would feel part of the AI as a Faction.

[vache]

A similar system has been suggested many times, I think a body part + volume type system would work better in the long run though, so you can distinguish between the very invasive and difficult to install powerful CBMs and the smaller utility CBMs that would never get installed otherwise. So, say your torso holds 100 volume. Time dilation CBM takes 50 volume, cloaking CBM takes 50 volume, blood filter CBM takes 25 volume, subdermal chest armor CBM takes 25 volume, expanded digestive system takes 15 volume, and blood analysis CBM takes 10 volume. You could take 2 large CBMs, one large and 2 medium ones, one large and one medium and two smaller ones, or two medium and two smaller and room to add another medium sized one. Cyborg threshold could involve removing an entire limb for a cybernetic prosthetic that allows more volume.

[joxer]

[quote=“arzhul, post:11, topic:9754”]I’d also like to swap alignment on the player once you reach the cyborg status, basically you could kill NPCs with no after thought
but destroying a robot (that is neutral or allied) would give you a morale penality.
That way the player would feel part of the AI as a Faction.[/quote]
There’s a huge difference between Cyborgs and Robots, I Don’t feel there’s an actual “AI” faction in Cataclysm
( Mass Effect 2 for reference, including the endings of that game )
If there were one such faction, sure. but as it stand, just no

[quote=“arzhul, post:11, topic:9754”]What about changes to the CBM system itself?
I think it should not be possible to install an infinite amount of CBMs and have a sort of slot system.
Example,
You could only have one CBM that affects the eye installed as a human.
To change it you have to do the surgery and risk death (as removing cbms is right now).
If you were to reach the true cyborg and replace your eyes by a special cybernetic counterpart (aka mutating for cyborgs)
You’d get an extra slot for an additional CBM and be able to swap them as desired with no risk.
Same for other limbs as would be appropriate.

Swapping a bodypart could also bring more effects, like permanent encumbrance, armor increase or whatever.[/quote]
While "not having to shove everything you find into ‘yourself’ " [size=1pt]( quoting Dominika, date unknown )[/size] seems good in concept
There aren’t that many CBM’s that would interfere with eachother logically, which is more than likely by design.
Could be an interesting mechanic if it wasn’t going to nerf CBM’s further ( Altho handy, They aren’t nearly as powerful as mutations )

[quote=“arzhul, post:11, topic:9754”]I’d also change the power system, being able to install an infinite amount of power isn’t very good for balance.
Why not replace the numerous power cbms with having one slot for an active power system that you upgrade with better parts.
Example, instead of having those 100 power cbms you’d have a basic power system that would give you 250.
Thats it, you can’t stack but if you find a better alternative you could get 500 instead by replacing it.
Then as you swap your core for the cybernetic one you’d be able to install another power pack or have a unique Cyborg Cbm (limited to those who have removed the taint of humanity).[/quote]
While i can certainly how something like that could work, As it stands the power system also provides an aspect of progression to CBM’s. If the progression was based around finding that one superior item ( more like 100 ~ 500 ~ 1k ~ 1,5k ~ 2k ~ etc ) it would merely be too limiting.
Especially for the CBM’s that require allot of power.

If however each CBM had the ability to store a specific amount of power, With the component you’d be upgrading were the conductors ( affecting how much power is “wasted” ) Would also create a need to plug in more and surpass the progression issues seamlessly.

[quote=“arzhul, post:11, topic:9754”]Then as you swap your core for the cybernetic one you’d be able to install another power pack or have a unique Cyborg Cbm (limited to those who have removed the taint of humanity).[/quote]
A cyborg (short for “cybernetic organism”) is a theoretical or fictional being with both organic and biomechatronic parts.
… :F … 0.Q

[arzhul]

[quote=“joxer, post:13, topic:9754”]There’s a huge difference between Cyborgs and Robots, I Don’t feel there’s an actual “AI” faction in Cataclysm
( Mass Effect 2 for reference, including the endings of that game )
If there were one such faction, sure. but as it stand, just no[/quote]

Part of the concept I had is that an evolving AI that decided humanity was its enemy.
Just a cool factor, if thats too far a stretch we can change that.
Would also bridge to the upcoming faction changes, I mean maintaining a robotic “army” would be awesome wouldn’t it?

[quote=“joxer, post:13, topic:9754”]While "not having to shove everything you find into ‘yourself’ " ( quoting Dominika, date unknown ) seems good in concept
There aren’t that many CBM’s that would interfere with eachother logically, which is more than likely by design.
Could be an interesting mechanic if it wasn’t going to nerf CBM’s further ( Altho handy, They aren’t nearly as powerful as mutations )[/quote]

One of my goals is to introduce stategic choices in the CBMs you install, however if everyone agree on keeping the shove everything you want I could instead add unique advantages/disadvantages to the cybernetic limbs itself, maybe have a few variations of them.

[quote=“joxer, post:13, topic:9754”]While i can certainly how something like that could work, As it stands the power system also provides an aspect of progression to CBM’s. If the progression was based around finding that one superior item ( more like 100 ~ 500 ~ 1k ~ 1,5k ~ 2k ~ etc ) it would merely be too limiting.
Especially for the CBM’s that require allot of power.

If however each CBM had the ability to store a specific amount of power, With the component you’d be upgrading were the conductors ( affecting how much power is “wasted” ) Would also create a need to plug in more and surpass the progression issues seamlessly.[/quote]

One of the issues of overpowered CBMs is the fact you can get basically unlimited energy and combine it with the time freeze cbm and just PWN everything. I think we need an actual limit. Perhaps like suggested by vache we could limit it by volume. Encumberment or other drawbacks while better (rarer) power cbms would be more efficient.

A cyborg (short for “cybernetic organism”) is a theoretical or fictional being with both organic and biomechatronic parts.

Well if the brain remains mostly intact while the rest has been replaced, it is still a Cyborg to me no?

A similar system has been suggested many times, I think a body part + volume type system would work better in the long run though, so you can distinguish between the very invasive and difficult to install powerful CBMs and the smaller utility CBMs that would never get installed otherwise. So, say your torso holds 100 volume. Time dilation CBM takes 50 volume, cloaking CBM takes 50 volume, blood filter CBM takes 25 volume, subdermal chest armor CBM takes 25 volume, expanded digestive system takes 15 volume, and blood analysis CBM takes 10 volume. You could take 2 large CBMs, one large and 2 medium ones, one large and one medium and two smaller ones, or two medium and two smaller and room to add another medium sized one. Cyborg threshold could involve removing an entire limb for a cybernetic prosthetic that allows more volume.

This would be good, still makes you choose your cbms while being able to choose a few weaker ones.

[Shopkeeper]

Well if the brain remains mostly intact while the rest has been replaced, it is still a Cyborg to me no?

So long as a borg has some fleshy bits jammed inside him, he’s still a cybernetic organism. Until he decides to replace those with something more efficient of course…

[Logrin]

I’d say no threshold dream at all but have the radio signal be something anyone with a radio can hunt down, maybe as part of a quest for an NPC faction. (Discover source of irregular broadcasts) The source ends up being a hidden XEDRA outpost for servicing/repairing/replacing their heavily cyberized bodies. Unfortunately the facility got nethered by an artifact they were analyzing–driving them all insane. For enemies you’d encounter berserk bio-operatives (still living), troops in power-armor, and autonomous defenses but the deeper you penetrate the more nethery things get. At the very end you’d encounter a sort of nether presence/organic A.I., the result of the anomalous item melding with the bunker’s mainframe. It had been building insane robots and leaking its mind into them. Defeat the ‘boss’ guarding the mainframe and access it and this presence makes you a proposal. Broadcast it out of the base (Freeing it and causing you to encounter these enemies elsewhere/opening up other quests) in return for its freedom it entices you with the access code to an autodoc capable of giving you a full cyberbody. (Removing all traits/mutations/setting stats to zero)

During the operation you’re able to invest points in a CMB creation screen to raise raw stats and are given some free traits. These traits would prompt like MA does to choose a style–except in this case you’re choosing chassis/power source/ software etc. This would also create a player corpse you’d be able to butcher for any CBMs you might have had or keep as a memento. Either way you’d need to bring CBMs here to have them retrofitted for installation. Some ideas for chassis:

Armored Endoskeleton: Think robocop. You’d basically become power armor, to the point that you could freely equip the hauling frame. Huge weight capacity and lets you use use weapons like the M2 browning without a mount/one handed.

Infiltration Unit: Think ghost in the shell. This would be a durable yet agile chassis that looks like a human being. Lets you wear clothes and has plenty of room for retrofitted CBMs.

Cores would be either high capacity or high efficiency. High capacity is better for using allot of power at once while high efficiency recharges passively, letting you use more cost-over-time CBMs

Software ideas:

Cyberwarfare package: Lets you remote hack Robot enemies and boosts hacking success rate

Combat Module: Lets you reload much faster, further aiming takes less time etc.

Engineering Software: Reduces crafting time by quite a bit.

Thoughts?

[troll_from_behind]

Would that AI happen to be called “Shodan”?

[joxer]

Thoughts?

A Bossfight?
worthwhile idea exploring on its own

Decision making?
And thy shall be forever known as shepard.

Foes in power armor
how the hell…insert gibberish … yes please!
aslong as they’re not wielding guns

The whole transformers/MA deal-
very enticing aswell.

In general this whole concept is extremely “exceptional” to the way rest of the progression is handled
i’d suggest breaking it down into several separate parts which merely synergize with eachother.

We are thinking way beyond diamond coating a katana with diamonds here.

[Wardenn]

I like this idea, though, as many stated before, I disagree with the dream. Definitely a radio signal or some kind of psychotic lust towards factories. (Also, where the hell are factories? We need some factories brother)

On CBM limits, I don’t think they should be implemented or if they are, have them optional. I do enjoy being a huge bionic freak. Though having some bionics conflict with others is fine. Like the Fusion Blaster Arm conflicting with the Monomolecular Blade.

Now to the cyborg pros
-Massive morale boost from installing CBMs
-Easier to install bionics
-Bionics are more efficient
-Boost to technical skills
-Robot Empathy (Functions similar to Animal Empathy)

And now the cons (we gotta be balanced, right?):
-Cyberpsychosis
-MASSIVE morale hit from removing bionics (even broken ones. They’re still part of you)
-NPCs see you as a monster
-Addiction to Power (Not being powered is just like suffering from amphetamine withdrawal)
-Addiction to Body-modding (Not having new bionics for a set time period is like withdrawal until you’ve surpassed a number limit)

Also, perhaps having certain mutations that allow you to hold more bionics (such as more limbs) if you turn on CBM Limit.

Just my thoughts.

[troll_from_behind]

Cyborg beign more machine wouldn’t a fixed morale value be more in character?
Wether it’s killing children (and eating them later), kicking dogs or snorting coke the machine simply doesn’t care.