Cooking from rotten food

[Reaper]

When cooking of rotten ingredients should be obtained rotten food, I think.

[i2amroy]

Yeah it’s on the bugs list right now, some possible solutions we were looking at were either just having rotten ingredients not be useable, having rotten ingredients produce rotten food, or maybe having it do some sort of average between the two ages for the new food (to show how you can sometimes make food that is just starting to go bad edible again with cooking it).

[vultures]

Or have a fast workabout, like :
[cooking]
2xrotten meat
2xmeat chunk (still fresh)

Using meat chunk(s). Discard rotten(s)? (Y/N)?

[Reaper]

Use standart “Use which component” dialog:

Use which component?
1.chunk of meat (fresh)
2.chunk of meat
3.chunk of meat (rotten)

[TheKaltur]

I don’t think, that it should be like this, because if you cook it every single bacterium and every bad thing in there will be dead and you should be able to eat this.

Reverting this is just harming the hunters, because one can not simply store flesh to stay fresh… A possible idea would be to implement refrigerators that work with ice you have to mine in the winter…

[drake1storm]

[quote=“TheKaltur, post:5, topic:1302”]I don’t think, that it should be like this, because if you cook it every single bacterium and every bad thing in there will be dead and you should be able to eat this.

Reverting this is just harming the hunters, because one can not simply store flesh to stay fresh… A possible idea would be to implement refrigerators that work with ice you have to mine in the winter…[/quote]

No, that is entirely false. While, yes, many basic bacteria will die when cooked, the bacteria and toxins released by said bacteria during the rotting process tend to survive all the way up to the point when the meat is charcoal. Hunters tended to store their meat by smoking it, and if they did not smoke or cure it fast enough, they contributed to the major food poisoning problem that occurred in nomadic hunter societies. The same problem that would be prevalent in any post apocalyptic scenario.

Also, in the winter, it is a lot easier just to bury the meat in the snow in your yard than to take the time to mine ice. It is just as effective and saves a lot of effort.

[TheKaltur]

But am i currently able to smoke the meat? AFAIK not… And I don’t want to eat beef jerky all the time -.-

[drake1storm]

But am i currently able to smoke the meat? AFAIK not… And I don’t want to eat beef jerky all the time -.-

Then you would not last long before the age of refrigeration.

[GunnerX]

[quote=“TheKaltur, post:7, topic:1302”]But am i currently able to smoke the meat? AFAIK not… And I don’t want to eat beef jerky all the time -.-

Then you would not last long before the age of refrigeration.[/quote]
Except canning, corning, salting, candying, crystallizing, pickling, smoking and irradiating all ca be viable methods of preservation that don’t result in jerky. I addition you can cook and coat things in jelly (SPAM), fat (<3 duck confit), honey or wax to prevent reintroduction of microbes to your freshly sterilized produce. There are also a number of methods of controlled spoilage, that result in things like cheese, beer, and sauerkraut.

And then there is lutefisk.

[drake1storm]

[quote=“drake1storm, post:8, topic:1302”][quote=“TheKaltur, post:7, topic:1302”]But am i currently able to smoke the meat? AFAIK not… And I don’t want to eat beef jerky all the time -.-

Then you would not last long before the age of refrigeration.[/quote]
Except canning, corning, salting, candying, crystallizing, pickling, smoking and irradiating all ca be viable methods of preservation that don’t result in jerky. I addition you can cook and coat things in jelly (SPAM), fat (<3 duck confit), honey or wax to prevent reintroduction of microbes to your freshly sterilized produce. There are also a number of methods of controlled spoilage, that result in things like cheese, beer, and sauerkraut.

And then there is lutefisk.[/quote]

Canning requires high pressure and temperatures to create an airtight seal (you are NOT doing that by hand) and irradiating is not something you can do on the fly. Covering things in fat may extend the food underneath’s lifetime, but the fat itself is susceptible to spoilage. Covering food in honey tends to also attract insects to your food, which introduce microbes and parasites in the process.

Also, none of these above sterilize the food, nor can any of them be done with already spoiled food. While there are, obviously, many ways of preserving food, the only of those you mentioned that are possible in a survival situation are pickling (which is what is done for saurkraut btw), smoking(jerky), and candying, with the last being rather unreliable for the previously mentioned reason.

But yes, making fresh milk into cheese is a good idea, while turning wheat into beer is not. While beer is generally safe to drink, it actually results in a net LOSS of body fluids if not made to the proper proof (hard to do to the untrained hand).

[KA101]

Jerky is currently more of a pickling process: it requires salt/salt water. There is no way to smoke meat in-game.

[drake1storm]

Jerky is currently more of a pickling process: it requires salt/salt water. There is no way to smoke meat in-game.

I suppose you could probably sun dry it if you encase it in salt…

Ouch. If that’s the case, they might want to make it way more dehydrating.

[system]

Build a smoking rack and attach some meat to it. Then if a smoke tile passes over the food it increases the smoked counter: Lightly smoked-Mildly smoked-smoked-Heavily smoked- Charcoaled.

Each has lower/negative moral increases for increased shelf life.

[pingpong]

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but canning can be done rather simply, as it was during the British Navy days. Maybe you could make like 10 cans from sheet metal and a welder, and then welding with 1 energy produces 1 can, and needs a nearby fire (and possibly a pan to hold it, and of course pre-existing food).

Opening a can however, requires like crafting 8 to make the can opener (if you don’t find one), or rocks or knives in a pinch.

Maybe food should be rebalanced for sustenance or ‘healthiness’, as meat is ridiculously ubiquitous atm, which makes everything except berries at the beginning pointless. Doesn’t the times I try to get berries or vegetables and they’re rotten or don’t exist.

[drake1storm]

[quote=“pingpong, post:14, topic:1302”]Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but canning can be done rather simply, as it was during the British Navy days. Maybe you could make like 10 cans from sheet metal and a welder, and then welding with 1 energy produces 1 can, and needs a nearby fire (and possibly a pan to hold it, and of course pre-existing food).

Opening a can however, requires like crafting 8 to make the can opener (if you don’t find one), or rocks or knives in a pinch.

Maybe food should be rebalanced for sustenance or ‘healthiness’, as meat is ridiculously ubiquitous atm, which makes everything except berries at the beginning pointless. Doesn’t the times I try to get berries or vegetables and they’re rotten or don’t exist.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning

Yeah, you are wrong there. While, yes, anyone can put it IN a can, it takes a lot of equipment to can food for preservation. Also, a can opener is a very simple system of gears and a small blade. It wouldn’t really take any skill if you have the needed materials.

Also, I’d rather go along with a sort of “food group” type of rework to the nutrition system, as well as simple nutrition. While surviving on meat can go on for a whole, humans need fruits and vegetables as well to survive. Getting scurvy in a survival situation is pretty much a death sentence.

[grisamentum]

[quote=“drake1storm, post:15, topic:1302”][quote=“pingpong, post:14, topic:1302”]Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but canning can be done rather simply, as it was during the British Navy days. Maybe you could make like 10 cans from sheet metal and a welder, and then welding with 1 energy produces 1 can, and needs a nearby fire (and possibly a pan to hold it, and of course pre-existing food).

Opening a can however, requires like crafting 8 to make the can opener (if you don’t find one), or rocks or knives in a pinch.

Maybe food should be rebalanced for sustenance or ‘healthiness’, as meat is ridiculously ubiquitous atm, which makes everything except berries at the beginning pointless. Doesn’t the times I try to get berries or vegetables and they’re rotten or don’t exist.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning

Yeah, you are wrong there. While, yes, anyone can put it IN a can, it takes a lot of equipment to can food for preservation.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_canning

No, YOU are wrong there.

Cmon. I know plenty of people who can stuff at home. It’s not rocket science.

[drake1storm]

[quote=“grisamentum, post:16, topic:1302”][quote=“drake1storm, post:15, topic:1302”][quote=“pingpong, post:14, topic:1302”]Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but canning can be done rather simply, as it was during the British Navy days. Maybe you could make like 10 cans from sheet metal and a welder, and then welding with 1 energy produces 1 can, and needs a nearby fire (and possibly a pan to hold it, and of course pre-existing food).

Opening a can however, requires like crafting 8 to make the can opener (if you don’t find one), or rocks or knives in a pinch.

Maybe food should be rebalanced for sustenance or ‘healthiness’, as meat is ridiculously ubiquitous atm, which makes everything except berries at the beginning pointless. Doesn’t the times I try to get berries or vegetables and they’re rotten or don’t exist.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning

Yeah, you are wrong there. While, yes, anyone can put it IN a can, it takes a lot of equipment to can food for preservation.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_canning

No, YOU are wrong there.

Cmon. I know plenty of people who can stuff at home. It’s not rocket science.[/quote]

“Using a canner”. An electrically powered device that likely requires a constant 12v power supply. Not exactly something the average joe has while trying to survive.

[Zipo]

[quote=“drake1storm, post:17, topic:1302”][quote=“grisamentum, post:16, topic:1302”][quote=“drake1storm, post:15, topic:1302”][quote=“pingpong, post:14, topic:1302”]Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, but canning can be done rather simply, as it was during the British Navy days. Maybe you could make like 10 cans from sheet metal and a welder, and then welding with 1 energy produces 1 can, and needs a nearby fire (and possibly a pan to hold it, and of course pre-existing food).

Opening a can however, requires like crafting 8 to make the can opener (if you don’t find one), or rocks or knives in a pinch.

Maybe food should be rebalanced for sustenance or ‘healthiness’, as meat is ridiculously ubiquitous atm, which makes everything except berries at the beginning pointless. Doesn’t the times I try to get berries or vegetables and they’re rotten or don’t exist.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning

Yeah, you are wrong there. While, yes, anyone can put it IN a can, it takes a lot of equipment to can food for preservation.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_canning

No, YOU are wrong there.

Cmon. I know plenty of people who can stuff at home. It’s not rocket science.[/quote]

“Using a canner”. An electrically powered device that likely requires a constant 12v power supply. Not exactly something the average joe has while trying to survive.[/quote]

I think it would be more accurate to say not something the average Joe has while trying to survive initially. The average Joe also probably doesn’t have bionic muscles and fusion blasters for arms initially doesn’t mean he can’t find them later. End up in one of those survivalist basements/shelters and I wouldn’t be surprised if you did find away to do canned goods. Plus it’s the future with Plutonium cells and hopefully better batteries maybe we’ll even get generators eventually so I don’t think power is the overall issue.

But while I do agree one shouldn’t be able to cook from rotten food I do think that such a bug shouldn’t be fixed until they have more methods of preservation.

[i2amroy]

As of the current dev version:
Canning is possible
Vacuum sealing is possible
Cooking rotten food yields rotten ingredients with slight freshening (so slightly rotten -> slightly good but long been rotten -> rotten).

IIRC then two of the three are also already in .5 (canning and vacuum sealing).

[Ferodaktyl]

Actually you can can fruits/veggies very very very simple. Put them in a glass jar with a screwing (?!) lid, add water, sugar or salt or vinegar, screw the lid on, boil. After it gets cold, it will autoseal the lid by creating negative pressure inside the jar.
In fact, right now i enjoy some of the canned peaches i made last year.