Coffee (and meth) vs sleep

[Coolthulhu]

Coffee and meth currently decrease fatigue, just like that. If you have a big enough stash, you can stay awake indefinitely. Atomic coffee is especially effective for this.

My idea of fix:

• Effective fatigue is scaled down by stimulation
• Stims cause some extra fatigue, but not that much (say, +25% of regular)
• Stims prevent sleep more effectively than they prevent tiredness
• Big stim (like from meth or stim binge) scales down hunger and thirst temporarily
• Huge stim (like from meth) hampers eating and drinking somehow (not allowing at all? big morale penalty? huge vomit chance?)
• Stims do not allow not-resting (and not-eating and not-drinking), but they allow postponing rest and “batching” it so that you stay awake for a week, then sleep for 3 days
• “Coming down” doesn’t need a huge extra debuff, it’s just combined fatigue+hunger+thirst and no way to cure it until stim times out. Possibly a morale penalty for that time?

This sounds rather realistic to me. Though not very “fun”, unlike “meth as speed potion”.
Any better ideas? Maybe the above as long term, but “speed potion”, with its comedown, in short term?

[StopSignal]

I think both, short term and long term consequences could be the best approach? after all, taking out the speedpotionyness kinda takes away one tool for the player, and tools are fun!
But with big consequences if overused.

[psyxypher]

Is it possible to make it so only Atomic Coffee (and the Atomic Energy Drink) allow you to stay awake indefinitely? I was under the impression that was their intent, both in universe in out. Perhaps make it so it’s also super-addictive and about as unhealthy as nuclear-enriched coffee should be? Think Monster Energy (IIRC, 1.5 cans is considered a dangerous level of caffeine) mixed with Engine Oil. Massive Health Debuffs, essentially, maybe followed by shakes?

I agree you shouldn’t be able to stay awake forever on Meth. I think it’d be a shame to change the effect of such an iconic item, especially since Atomic Coffee is so integral to late game (those extra 8-10 hours really start adding up).

[Coolthulhu]

I think it’d be a shame to change the effect of such an iconic item, especially since Atomic Coffee is so integral to late game (those extra 8-10 hours really start adding up).

If anything should give indefinite wakefulness, it should be meth, because it’s limited.
Though addiction isn’t a bad idea. Say, after 3 days of atomic coffee, you’d need to ~triple the dose to stay awake (burning through stash faster), while also getting irradiated and unhealthy fast. And going cold turkey would mean spending up to 2 weeks (less if stopped early) in bed.

We really need some good addictions in the game. Current ones are bad because it’s always better to avoid them and go cold turkey, there is never a reason to stay addicted.

[kevin.granade]

The most robust fix for this is to split hunger/thirst/fatigue into objective and subjective components.

E.g. stimulants reduce your immediate need to sleep, but do nothing for your eventual need to sleep.
Likewise, some chemicals reduce your appetite, but do nothing to supply you with energy.

With this separation, stimulants would keep you from sleeping, but the accumulating fatigue would cause penalties, and eventually either you get off the stimulants and sleep, or you keel over.