Claim system

[KA101]

Wouldn’t the zones feature that’s already in game (but doesn’t seem to do anything yet) be perfect for this? Designate a zone as “Personal Property” and your NPC followers won’t touch anything in it. Designate a zone as “Communal Property” and they’ll take what they want and dump unwanted crap there.

I’d be glad to mergetest such a PR. (Zones are currently handy for telling autopickup “not here plz”.)

[SilverDragon]

Well say we do manage to claim a house (however we manage to get it done) rather then marking the whole area as (Do not touch!!) zone would it not be better if we could mark or lock any constructable storage units inside said claim be it a fridge/cupboard or RV fridge, maby doors as long as its in your claimed area, these objects could probably still be broken into by hostile NPCs but at least your allies/friendly’s wont touch it, also speaking of which if a hostile NPC enters your claim killing them should count as self defense and not take a massive hit to moral

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“SilverDragon, post:22, topic:7579”]Well say we do manage to claim a house (however we manage to get it done) rather then marking the whole area as (Do not touch!!) zone would it not be better if we could mark or lock any constructable storage units inside said claim be it a fridge/cupboard or RV fridge, maby doors as long as its in your claimed area, these objects could probably still be broken into by hostile NPCs but at least your allies/friendly’s wont touch it, also speaking of which if a hostile NPC enters your claim killing them should count as self defense and not take a massive hit to moral :P[/quote]+9001!!!

[FunsizeNinja123]

Or put locks on lockers, doors, dressers (?), etc.

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:24, topic:7579”]Or put locks on lockers, doors, dressers (?), etc.[/quote]and introduce a new skill, lockpicking!

[SilverDragon]

[quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:24, topic:7579”]Or put locks on lockers, doors, dressers (?), etc.[/quote]and introduce a new skill, lockpicking!

with something like that though much would have to be edited, as long as only hostile NPCs would try to open them its fine if they need to bash/wrench it open with a tool, if you can lock/reinforce doors you could slow them down when they try to break in, we really don’t need a complicated system with many additions, just a few simple functions should suffice

[Valiant]

Let’s think about all this thing in realistic way, sort of.

When you’re strolling around some zombie-and-NPC-infested area and see some house/shop/etc you want to breach into for scavenging, how do you decide, whether it’s somebody’s place or nobody’s? Most likely by external features of this place. Some of them are:

• boarded, taped and - especially - reinforced windows;
• traps all around the place;
• sometimes lots of slain Zeds and monsters around the place;
• maybe some other.

Can’t say for everyone, but IRL in my usual searching for loot in dead people’s houses (he-he) I’d think twice before entering building with aforementioned features.

Maybe we need some overlay on main game screen like footsteps sign? I mean, let’s say you approached some suspicious building and saw some reinforced windows and - lucky! - spotted some traps underneath these windows. So game draws some sort of a overlay sign (with question mark, for example) on top of this building. This means that you presume that this building is MAYBE claimed by somebody.

If you dared to enter this building (most likely by prying door or window) nevertheless and saw an angry NPC-owner, the overlay sign will change for exclamation mark meaning that this building IS claimed. Everything in it is owned by this NPC. So taking any item from this building will be considered as thieving (only if witnessed, of course).

[StopSignal]

I am going to back from dead just to say this.

Let’s consider these things:

1-A person won’t know what is yours until you tell them.
2-A person that does not know you won’t care, because looting.
3-A friendly person won’t know what is yours until you tell them, like #1.
4-A system that could work would be to command the NPC to not grab any thing from an area. The map pops up, and you will choose wich areas are your territory. Do this with every NPC that you want to be with.
5-In this case, hostile NPCs can still loot because looting, and friendly ones (that know about your territory) no.
6-This makes defending your base from looters possible and fun.
7-Killing hostile NPCs in your territory should not hit morale that badly.
8-There is no “magical cr**” here. It’s basically how it would work in real life.

This is also, in a vague idea of me, easier than other ideas and also does not need to have a claimed tag for ALL the things, just for the area.

Also, other suggestions:
9-NPCs can and will claim a territory (or at least to have them pre-generated), but it should have the following things (if possible)
-It’s a safeplace, wich means no zombies near it.
-It has got loot. NPC territories could have also a boost for the apparition of items, this including guns and food, survival stuff.
-The NPC could either be kind and do nothing to you, or attack if in the territory.
-Stealing from the territory can be done, but after stealing, if the NPC sees you with one of his items in your inventory, it turns hostile.
-To know about territories from NPCs, you could ask other NPCs or chat to the owner of the territory (and he could tell you about the place)
10-This system can also make having bands of NPCs easier, because they could spawn all allied to each other and all could use the things in the territory. (If possible)
11-Hostile bands could be possible too, like the bandit camps. (if possible)
12-Can NPCs target each other as enemies? I have never seen them do so. If possible, this has to be boosted, making them friendly or hostile, wich could make the game far more interesting. As stated before, friendly NPCs let you be in their territory.
13-Killing the NPC owning the territory deletes it and you can grab everything freely. Same if he dies naturally.
14-If you die, NPCs that you told about your territory can take your stuff freely.
15-NPCs that kill you in your territory will claim it (This could make a lot of fun revenges, huh?)

That other things, even if a lot harder and needing a little too much NPC work, i think could be AWESOME and INMERSION GIVING for the game.

[ramesesniblet]

I would like a system that stops NPC followers from pocketing all the loot you’ve stashed away at your shelter, that’s for sure. I was thinking the other day that the zones system which is currently only used for autopickup could be used, but that would be very exploitable. I also thought of having a speech check for “Everything in this building is mine, don’t touch it” dialogue option, which I think would work just fine (and make the speech skill a bit more useful).

[kevin.granade]

The designation menu is a terrible match for this, how exactly are you going to explain to keep away from an arbitrary series of shapes, but everything else is fine?
The front-runner for this kind of thing IMO is building a sign of some kind that stakes a claim on everything in a certain area.
For short term stuff like item’s you’re adjacent to, a chat command should probably suffice.

Again, what I could really use is scenarios where this kind of thing happens, which can act as a way to compare the various approaches.

[StopSignal]

The designation menu is a terrible match for this, how exactly are you going to explain to keep away from an arbitrary series of shapes, but everything else is fine?

Well, in this case you just tell them your area. The game does not tell you it’s an square, and you don’t need to know. I bet it could be foreshadowed by the fact that some place is yours (ie: a house) so they will avoid the entire territory.

Also, you could only tell some zones for them. If your zone is too big, it will lose priority and they could steal if they want.

The thing about the sign is that when i get a friend in my house i don’t need a sign for them to tell them it’s mine. I just tell them.

[Bonevomit]

please, no designation shit. I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with designating shit in dwarf fortress, I rather avoid all that if physically possible.

[kevin.granade]

Well, in this case you just tell them your area. The game does not tell you it’s an square, and you don’t need to know. I bet it could be foreshadowed by the fact that some place is yours (ie: a house) so they will avoid the entire territory.

To be clear, you want the player to have to use an interface that precisely defines boundaries, but then the NPCs mostly ignore it. If the scope is the general area, the interface needs to mark a general area, not a specific series of squares.

Also, you could only tell some zones for them. If your zone is too big, it will lose priority and they could steal if they want.

That has nothing to do with what we’re talking about, but it’s also a terrible idea, how does the player know how much area is too much?

The thing about the sign is that when i get a friend in my house i don’t need a sign for them to tell them it’s mine. I just tell them.

You could just tell them “this area (I’m standing in) is mine”, and it could mark it as claimed from the NPCs point of view. That has nothing to do with using a designation menu to mark it.

[Logrin]

So I’ve read through the PR and the thread and I’ve got some thoughts. I like the idea of tagging areas as owned ((Both for the player and NPCs)) and I like the idea that some NPCs will take a chance and loot owned areas anyway. Assuming that is the way this gets implemented I’ve some suggestions:

First and foremost you should be able to lay a claim mentally. This would be an area that you consider to be yours. NPCs can’t be aware of this unless you alert them verbally and are just as likely to tell you to go pound sand. These areas, from you, NPCs, factions and territorial animals/non-humans would quite often intersect, leading to contested zones.

Second, you can ((and pretty much must)) take action to strengthen your claim, such as tagging an area with spray paint. This is where it gets good, because certain things would be weighted to do more to strengthen or weaken your claim than others. Obviously no one’s going to take you seriously if you’re letting looters/zombies/etc infest your claim. How strong or how weak a claim is or isn’t should work as a measure of how likely an average NPC is to just ignore it.

Things that should strengthen a claim:

Tagging walls/floors with spray paint. This works right in RL for letting people know an area is ‘owned’ by gangs.
Setting up Traps or Turrets within your claim
Building Signs within your claim
Telling a follower NPC to guard this location
Broadcasting it over the radio, but that also lets more people know where it is.
Fresh corpses
Putting the mutilated remains of your enemies on display
You (If you’re more heavily armed or intimidating than the trespasser)
Outnumbering the trespassers via followers/pets/friendly robots.

Things that should weaken a claim:

Being away for long periods of time.
Hostiles of any kind
Broken or damaged windows, doors or walls. If it looks easy to take your stuff more people will try.
Proximity and strength of competing claims.
You (If you’re less heavily armed or intimidating than the trespasser)
Being outnumbered by the trespassers

That’s the bare bones of the idea but I’ve got a little more to add yet. How strong you claim is should be checked against how GOOD the stuff is inside it. If you have a really strong claim but NPCs can see you’ve got really nice stuff they’ll still want it. They’ll try to get it one of three ways.

*Trading. This is usually the first route they’ll go if your claim is strong. NPCs will offer to trade items or train a skill if you’ll cough up the item. If you refuse they’ll either leave or explore their other options. Such as…

*Stealing, based on how inclined to theft they are and how weak your claim is. NPCs that are predisposed to theft may even try to steal from you while followers, depending on how much the like/respect/fear you. If you refused to trade NPCs might loiter around the area and try to pilfer your stash when it’s dark. If caught in the act they’ll either flee, return the item or resort to…

*Raiding. If you see a band of roving, heavily armed NPCs this is probably what they’re here for. Since even bullets are valuable though they’ll be more inclined to have you drop your weapon and scram while they loot than straight up kill you. Fighting back would for obvious reasons turn this into a firefight.

Lastly a player should be able to decide how relaxed his or her claim is. A relaxed claim means NPCs can come and go as the please so long as they respect the claim and mind themselves–a good choice if you wanted to set up a trade hub or wanted to convince people to stick around and guard it. An aggressive claim on the other hand means you’re ready and willing to kill trespassers. Naturally relaxed claims need more protecting than aggressive ones.

[HunterAlpha1]

+9001!!!

[Lorknis]

Something I’d just like to add: You and/or the NPC’s wouldn’t know they stole from you unless you saw them. I find it kinda funny that they’re able to look inside your inventory just by looking at you and see those nice cans of food that they used to own. It’s not like he drew his initals all over his stuff…

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“Lorknis, post:36, topic:7579”]Something I’d just like to add: You and/or the NPC’s wouldn’t know they stole from you unless you saw them. I find it kinda funny that they’re able to look inside your inventory just by looking at you and see those nice cans of food that they used to own. It’s not like he drew his initals all over his stuff…[/quote]It’s actually not that difficult to figure out who took your stuff through deduction and tracking(the latter skill being one that should totally be added to the game). So, you arrive back at base, and notice some stuff missing. You cast about for tracks, follow the freshest set(which, considering people most people tend to be on the dead side these days, shouldn’t be too hard), follow them to their source, kill the thief(or slap him electric cuffs) and get your stuff back.

[KA101]

New use for permanent markers and/or carving messages, I should think.