Claim system

[HunterAlpha1]

Refer to this thread.

A claim system like in The Walking Dead, where if you pick something up it is automatically “claimed” and is tagged as your property, so that when you drop it honest NPCs and NPCs who are friendly to you won’t take it. NPCs would also be able to claim and drop items, and if you try to pick them up you get a “Picking up this item(s) would be stealing. Continue? (Y/N)” Stealing something would cause all honest NPCs and friends of the thief’s victims to turn hostile towards the thief.

You and NPCs could also “discard” items, for example you want to arm or equip an NPC with ammo or clothes etc. or have an NPC start a fire with wood in your inventory. Once dropped the discarded item(s) could be picked up by any other character who wants it.

[mineforce]

I 100% want to see this in the game.

[kevin.granade]

Just FYI, “do things the way this other game did it” is very unlikely to help your suggestion get adopted.
Every time it has come up in the past, I’ve either been unfamiliar with the game, so it’s just noise, or I disagreed with how the other game did things.
It also gives a bad impression because it looks like an appeal to authority.

As for the suggestion, a NPC walks up to a random item on the ground that you’ve claimed, how do they even know it’s yours?

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:3, topic:7579”]Just FYI, “do things the way this other game did it” is very unlikely to help your suggestion get adopted.
Every time it has come up in the past, I’ve either been unfamiliar with the game, so it’s just noise, or I disagreed with how the other game did things.
It also gives a bad impression because it looks like an appeal to authority.

As for the suggestion, a NPC walks up to a random item on the ground that you’ve claimed, how do they even know it’s yours?[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead_(TV_series) You really ought to watch it, considering dev a zombie apocalypse game

Mark it with your name?

[haiironosora]

Just FYI, “do things the way this other game did it” is very unlikely to help your suggestion get adopted.

I think he meant the TV series, it’s less a game mechanic and more a social rule so to speak. There was this biker type gang of psycho anarchistic biker outlaws who had a law of owbership called ‘claim’ tgat basically amounted to the owner of anything was decided whoever called dibs first.

Such a way of ownership could maybe work, as a stopgap implementation or maybe part of a more complex system eventually, the logic of dibs by picking it up first is not complex, codeing it is offcoarse a different animal.

I don’t think haveing all friendlies turn insta hostile for a single offence is that great tho., it brings to mind too many of those games where an entire town started insta murdering me for picking up a rock or something, and that just breaks immersion.

[mineforce]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:3, topic:7579”]Just FYI, “do things the way this other game did it” is very unlikely to help your suggestion get adopted.

I think he meant the TV series, it’s less a game mechanic and more a social rule so to speak. There was this biker type gang of psycho anarchistic biker outlaws who had a law of owbership called ‘claim’ tgat basically amounted to the owner of anything was decided whoever called dibs first.

Such a way of ownership could maybe work, as a stopgap implementation or maybe part of a more complex system eventually, the logic of dibs by picking it up first is not complex, codeing it is offcoarse a different animal.

I don’t think haveing all friendlies turn insta hostile for a single offence is that great tho., it brings to mind too many of those games where an entire town started insta murdering me for picking up a rock or something, and that just breaks immersion.[/quote]

We need some type of relationship system. If you steal something from your npc/survival buddy, they’ll lose respect for you.

[bahihs]

[quote=“haiironosora, post:5, topic:7579”][quote=“Kevin Granade, post:3, topic:7579”]Just FYI, “do things the way this other game did it” is very unlikely to help your suggestion get adopted.

I think he meant the TV series, it’s less a game mechanic and more a social rule so to speak. There was this biker type gang of psycho anarchistic biker outlaws who had a law of owbership called ‘claim’ tgat basically amounted to the owner of anything was decided whoever called dibs first.

Such a way of ownership could maybe work, as a stopgap implementation or maybe part of a more complex system eventually, the logic of dibs by picking it up first is not complex, codeing it is offcoarse a different animal.

I don’t think haveing all friendlies turn insta hostile for a single offence is that great tho., it brings to mind too many of those games where an entire town started insta murdering me for picking up a rock or something, and that just breaks immersion.[/quote]

We need some type of relationship system. If you steal something from your npc/survival buddy, they’ll lose respect for you.[/quote]

You mean if you get caught…

[kevin.granade]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead_(TV_series) You really ought to watch it, considering dev a zombie apocalypse game

I did for two seasons, then it started sucking. I posted a rant about it a while back.

Mark it with your name?

“You can’t pick that item up, as it has a name written on it x1000.”

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:7579”]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead_(TV_series) You really ought to watch it, considering dev a zombie apocalypse game

I did for two seasons, then it started sucking. I posted a rant about it a while back.

Mark it with your name?

“You can’t pick that item up, as it has a name written on it x1000.”[/quote]Oh you mean like if the same item gets stolen by multiple people? Perhaps have a way for a character’s claim over something to fade over time(except for the player character’s property, of course).

[kevin.granade]

That’s exactly the kind of magical game crap that the proposed system requires and I can’t stand.
How do you know how old the claim is? How do you know someone doesn’t still consider it theirs? Why does the player get a pass on the claim fading?

[jcd]

IRL the claim would be as good as the one who makes it ->
i.e. how well someone can protect his claim ->
i.e. how well known + intimidating is someone + things that convey that he is living here currently (fresh organic junk, less dust in his house etc.)

The problem is that in cata we don’t have these things that indicate when someone is currently living here, so the idea is (and i partly support it) that the “fade-over-time” system simulates all those things.
Its not magical, it just abstractly simulates some things we don’t have (or need to have) in cata.
What i mean is that if you come to a house 2 days after a previous occupant left, you’d surmise he is still living here, but if it was 2 years ago, you’d think the place abandoned.

The time varies of course with the factors i named at the top of my post, (not everyone would take stuff from the pile of a well-known vengeful bandit, at least not too quickly in case he came back)
Also a faction may protect its member’s property, even when they are away, and up to the point they think the person is dead…

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“jcd, post:11, topic:7579”]IRL the claim would be as good as the one who makes it ->
i.e. how well someone can protect his claim ->
i.e. how well known + intimidating is someone + things that convey that he is living here currently (fresh organic junk, less dust in his house etc.)

The problem is that in cata we don’t have these things that indicate when someone is currently living here, so the idea is (and i partly support it) that the “fade-over-time” system simulates all those things.
Its not magical, it just abstractly simulates some things we don’t have (or need to have) in cata.
What i mean is that if you come to a house 2 days after a previous occupant left, you’d surmise he is still living here, but if it was 2 years ago, you’d think the place abandoned.

The time varies of course with the factors i named at the top of my post, (not everyone would take stuff from the pile of a well-known vengeful bandit, at least not too quickly in case he came back)
Also a faction may protect its member’s property, even when they are away, and up to the point they think the person is dead…[/quote]^This.

[kevin.granade]

We’re conflating two things here.
One is marking individual items as owned, in which case there are no tells to indicate that time has passed since the claim was made. This is what I’m referring to as “magical game crap”. Just picking something up shouldn’t persistently mark something as “claimed”, because there’s no mechanism where NPCs or the player would know about the claim, unless they saw the other player drop it, and even then if the ‘owner’ walked away, that’s a strong indication that it’s now abandoned. It would be reasonable to drop a stash of stuff, then tell a friendly NPC, “don’t mess with my stuff”, which marks it as yours, but only to the NPC you told about it.

The other is posting a physical claim marker in the game, which claims an area. I agree it’s reasonable to infer that a claim is abandoned based on lack of signs of habitation, so aging these claims away would work. Side note, the clearest sign that a claim is dangerous to mess with would be corpses around it, which has been brought up before.

EDIT: We’re also discussing this on a github issue: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/9555

[Bonevomit]

The only thing I can think up right now is having an option for the NPCs you are leading saying “Don’t pick up these things” and then getting a list of things you don’t want the NPC to pick up.

For each option you have to pass a speech check to convince the NPC not to pick up that kind of item. Their difficulty based on the type of object. If you fail the NPC calls you a greedy asshole and likes you less. If you succeed they respect your authority and don’t pick up those items anymore(unless you tell them to or you leave them).

[HunterAlpha1]

Lol whatever you guys come up with I’m sure it’ll work fine, my original suggestions was mostly a placeholder so that NPC companions are actually workable.

[VonParre]

what if (note i know absolutely nothing how this game works on mechanical level) instead of any magical knowledge about who owns what there were somekind claim for small areas? use for signs and paints and markers and such? Like “Shoo, owned by Angry Gunman with Big Dog” text on wall or sign which maybe rebels good npcs and lures lootters/baddies. Dunno if this would end up just being dozen npcs dancing dance of pathfinding around your base but atleast it would lessen the amount of ex allies splattered to base walls:D

[jcd]

this is about how we are thinking of implementing in on the in-game level afaiu

you construct a sign then write on it something about its !my! claim, to do the actual claiming.

what happens thereafter should vary depending on lots of things.

[vultures]

Oh, the everquest… ownership and property. Let’s give it a go:

• create an item filter stack;
• make it double sided, so (a) objects are the Player/Monster class, and (b) are Items class;
• define time-dependent rules.

Let’s say you’re wearing your kevlar vest for some time, only to replace it with some survivor armor. We can now think of it in terms of Skill Rust, perhaps; when the “ownership” degrades, party members can pick it up. Wielding and wearing items have higher stack priority and you should own them longer than, for example, tools that you use occasionaly. This way, if you’ve been using your wrench and welder to repair/upgrade your vehicle and dropped those tools afterwards others (NPCs) can pick 'em up after a fairly short period of time. Your bow/arrows can’t be picked for much longer, because you were both wielding and using them to your own benefit.

A note – few items (of great value to the survivor) should ommit this rule; bullets, ID cards, cash cards and (perhaps) peculiar drugs may be good examples.

[HunterAlpha1]

Personally I like the idea of having the ability to designate an area as off limits to NPCs.

[Bumpkin]

Wouldn’t the zones feature that’s already in game (but doesn’t seem to do anything yet) be perfect for this? Designate a zone as “Personal Property” and your NPC followers won’t touch anything in it. Designate a zone as “Communal Property” and they’ll take what they want and dump unwanted crap there.