Characters can start knowing how to fletch some types of arrows, but not others

Game Talk The Garage
1

More of a flaw in logic than an actual coding bug, but I think it’s worth a report.

I started a Bow Hunter character with 2 archery, 2 tailoring, 2 fabrication, and 2 survival, and I’ve found that I actually don’t know how to fletch field point wooden arrows, but somehow I do know how to fletch fire-hardened and small game arrows. CDDA Item Browser says I meet the skill requirements for the recipe, so apparently I would need to find an archery book in order to learn it. Knowing how to fletch an arrow shouldn’t really depend on what type of point it has, so ideally if a character would start with one recipe they’d start with them all.

2

That does sound a bit odd, yeah. The only possibly justification I can think of is if the flight characteristics of a given arrow type is radially different from that of more nornal arrows, but even then the fletched versions should probably be learned at the same time as the unfletched versions, if not even earlier.

3

You auto-learn the weaker one specifically in order to allow you to train your crafting skill. If we apply “all or none”, the outcome is “none”. If that’s your preference, simply refrain from crafting them until you find a book.

4

Hmm. I thought he was referring to being able to make an unfletched arrow, but needing higher skill in order to FLETCH it.

Which I could’ve sworn was a thing. O.o

EDIT: I was right.

},{ "type" : "recipe", "result" : "arrow_fire_hardened", "category" : "CC_AMMO", "subcategory": "CSC_AMMO_ARROWS", "skill_used" : "fabrication", "skills_required": [ "survival", 1 ], "difficulty" : 0, "time" : 5000, "reversible" : false, "autolearn" : true, "qualities":[ {"id":"CUT","level":1,"amount":1} ], "tools" : [ [ [ "fire", -1 ] ] ], "components" : [ [ [ "shaft_wood", 10 ] ] ] },{

},{ "type" : "recipe", "result" : "arrow_fire_hardened_fletched", "category" : "CC_AMMO", "subcategory": "CSC_AMMO_ARROWS", "skill_used" : "fabrication", "skills_required": [ "survival", 2 ], "difficulty" : 1, "time" : 3000, "reversible" : true, "autolearn" : true, "book_learn" : [[ "recipe_arrows", 2 ] , [ "book_archery", 2]], "qualities":[ {"id":"CUT","level":1,"amount":1} ], "components" : [ [ [ "superglue", 5 ], [ "bone_glue", 5 ], [ "thread", 10, "NO_RECOVER" ], [ "sinew", 10, "NO_RECOVER" ], [ "plant_fibre", 10, "NO_RECOVER" ] ], [ [ "arrow_fire_hardened", 10 ] ], [ [ "fletching", 10 ] ] ] },{

I get maybe fletching being a technically thing where the requirement might be higher than the bare-minimum simplest type of arrow point, but it makes a negative amount of sense that applying fletching is more difficult all across the board.

5

it always seemed weird to me too that i can craft an unfletched arrow, but cannot fletch it.

6

Well arrowmakers claim (and I have no reason to doubt), that getting the fletching right is the most difficult part in the process.

7

Hmm. If that’s true then I suppose it makes sense, but you’d still think it would depend on whether the arrowhead’s flight characteristics would require applying the fletching in a different way than the norm. >.>

8

Yeah, being able to craft unfletched arrows but not being able to fletch them makes sense, as long as it’s consistently applied.

This is what I’m referring to:

I can fletch two types, but not the third. It’s like knowing how to make a sandwich on rye bread, but not on wheat.

9

How about a poorly fletched variant for early game? So you can at least make some kind of ammo. May even have negative accuracy.

10

You know, I rather be able to make some ammo than none at all when playing early level archers, logic be damned.

Don’t see why its necessary for archers to item hunt a pair of books to make mediocre arrows when melee is as easy as finding the first thing with a positive to hit and a move cost under a hundred.

11

I’m with John here.

Archery doesn’t need a nerf with arrow accessibility. It’s enough that we need to manufacture fletching, arrowheads and thread. It alone makes archery too tedious to bother with.

Just look at the current gameplay: chucking rocks is better than archery for both hunting and combat.
Until high levels, when it makes bow fighters full-auto monstrosities. But getting high levels requires getting high level arrows and bows BEFORE getting those high levels, meaning it’s an entire skill category that is book locked.

Gameplay > realism. Nothing good ever comes from a feature that nobody (who knows how it works) uses because it’s too bad. Once gameplay works, we can think about realism, but not before.

A smaller, but related problems: 5 super/bone glue per 10 arrows is stupidly expensive. 1 bone glue costs 10 bones (or 20 tainted ones).

12

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:11, topic:9925”]I’m with John here.

Archery doesn’t need a nerf with arrow accessibility. It’s enough that we need to manufacture fletching, arrowheads and thread. It alone makes archery too tedious to bother with.

Just look at the current gameplay: chucking rocks is better than archery for both hunting and combat.
Until high levels, when it makes bow fighters full-auto monstrosities. But getting high levels requires getting high level arrows and bows BEFORE getting those high levels, meaning it’s an entire skill category that is book locked.

Gameplay > realism. Nothing good ever comes from a feature that nobody (who knows how it works) uses because it’s too bad. Once gameplay works, we can think about realism, but not before.

A smaller, but related problems: 5 super/bone glue per 10 arrows is stupidly expensive. 1 bone glue costs 10 bones (or 20 tainted ones).[/quote]

I totally agree with everything you say, especially the high cost of making the arrows and glues. I liked more how it worked before the changes, when it was possible to shoot unfletched arrows with a lower accuracy just to train the skill.

As it is right now, i usually just grind the skill with slingshot or, if i am lucky with drops, blowgun, until i am able to craft a longbow and some decent arrows (i think fletched wooden arrows come at same levels with longbow) and afterwards i start using bows. But i still like the pneumatic bolt driver more than bows for some reason, although from experience, i have better results with the reflex recurve bow and metal arrows.

I am not sure why, but for me the bolt driver is not particularly accurate at ranges longer than 5-6, which is kind of weird. This was with marksmanship 9 and rifles 7.

13

I didn’t say we should remove the low-level fletched arrows, just that if we were blindly making things consistent, that’s the way it would go. We are not doing that.
I think Miloch’s suggestion resolves the issue at hand, change the description to indicate that they are shoddily fletched, and bob’s your uncle.

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:11, topic:9925”]Just look at the current gameplay: chucking rocks is better than archery for both hunting and combat.
Until high levels, when it makes bow fighters full-auto monstrosities. But getting high levels requires getting high level arrows and bows BEFORE getting those high levels, meaning it’s an entire skill category that is book locked.[/quote]
I’d say this is a problem with the relative effectiveness of throwing vs archery, nothing to do with the realism bugbear.

If you make features unrealistic as you add them or “fix” balance with no regard for realism, and then push them toward realism, you’re setting yourself up for unnecessary conflict. There is no conflict necessary, all of these things (guns, melee, archery, running, etc) have natural “balance” IRL, it’s just a matter of finding what aspects of them you need to emphasize in order to bring them in line with the way things should work.

I don’t think that one’s controversial, just change it.

14

Oh good, I was coming here to just ask why it was like this.

The lower level arrows don’t have much range or damage which is already compensating for the loss being ‘good’ arrows.

I’m not sure why they have to be marked as ‘shoddy’ fletched, when you can throw a 2x4 farther than you can shoot an a low end arrow with a short bow, and it will do more damage.

It’s already starting in it that they just aren’t made from the best materials so that is why they are not as good. Fire hardened is for if you don’t have arrow heads, the other ones use ceramic/nails.