Can we have Negative Dispersion Bonus values?

[Paquito]

Ruger Mini-14 is my favorite rifle in the game, and I’d like to use it to snipe troublesome shocker zombies from a safe distance. (Play with hardcore, so they can make things difficult when they’re in range to shock me).

I excitedly added a bunch of modifications to it to increase its accuracy, only to find that I can’t reduce it’s dispersion bonus to below zero, which it has by default. This seems silly, it’s as if my rifle scope isn’t doing anything to make me a more accurate shooter. Would it break things to have a negative dispersion bonus on a firearm?

[i2amroy]

Would it break things to have a negative dispersion bonus on a firearm?

Yes, because at that point you are basically warping the universe to shoot more accurately then the gun/your hands allow.

That said we do have some plans to move towards a finer grained dispersion system which should allow for higher accuracies at longer distances, it’s just on hold right now as we deal with the .9 stuff.

[Luissen]

Will we be able to accurize our weapons, in the same way that some people fine tune their sights, glass bed their stocks and free-float their barrels? while a weapon will have inherent inaccuracies, a weapons system in of itself can still be improved.

[Turtlicious]

[quote=“Paquito, post:1, topic:3943”]Would it break things to have a negative dispersion bonus on a firearm?

Yes, because at that point you are basically warping the universe to shoot more accurately then the gun/your hands allow.[/quote]

Uh… No? You’re putting a scope on it, his issue is that the scopes aren’t making his weapon more accurate. If the gun starts at 0 accuracy, and I put a scope on it, then I should become more accurate OR it should raise my perception / dex for that shot. Since I can see my target better.

[Paquito]

Uh… No? You’re putting a scope on it, his issue is that the scopes aren’t making his weapon more accurate. If the gun starts at 0 accuracy, and I put a scope on it, then I should become more accurate OR it should raise my perception / dex for that shot. Since I can see my target better.

FYI, the wiki states that rifle scopes lower the dispersion bonus, so whether or not that technically makes sense, it’s what the game is doing.

That said, I get that dispersion bonus != accuracy now. What’s the stat that gets improved when you install the Targeting System bionic? 'Cause that’s probably what should be improved when you use a weapon with these modifications.

[asdfzxc]

[quote=“Paquito, post:1, topic:3943”]Ruger Mini-14 is my favorite rifle in the game, and I’d like to use it to snipe troublesome shocker zombies from a safe distance. (Play with hardcore, so they can make things difficult when they’re in range to shock me).

I excitedly added a bunch of modifications to it to increase its accuracy, only to find that I can’t reduce it’s dispersion bonus to below zero, which it has by default. This seems silly, it’s as if my rifle scope isn’t doing anything to make me a more accurate shooter. Would it break things to have a negative dispersion bonus on a firearm?[/quote]
Check your dispersion after reloading. If the total dispersion is less than the ammo’s base dispersion, then the mods are working and the game just isn’t showing it (negative range values have a similar bug).

[Luissen]

Uh… No? You’re putting a scope on it, his issue is that the scopes aren’t making his weapon more accurate. If the gun starts at 0 accuracy, and I put a scope on it, then I should become more accurate OR it should raise my perception / dex for that shot. Since I can see my target better.

Could have sworn I heard or read something about a contractor discussing how even throwing a “Hillbilly gunsmith” optic onto an AK-47 was making the received fire somewhat deadlier.

Optics are generally easier to use than iron sights. (or at least I, and many other people find it to be the case)

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“Turtlicious, post:4, topic:3943”]Uh… No? You’re putting a scope on it, his issue is that the scopes aren’t making his weapon more accurate. If the gun starts at 0 accuracy, and I put a scope on it, then I should become more accurate OR it should raise my perception / dex for that shot. Since I can see my target better.

Could have sworn I heard or read something about a contractor discussing how even throwing a “Hillbilly gunsmith” optic onto an AK-47 was making the received fire somewhat deadlier.

Optics are generally easier to use than iron sights. (or at least I, and many other people find it to be the case)[/quote]

With iron-sights you have to line up the two posts closest to you with the single post at the end of the rifle to accurately aim while using a scope is more or less put the crosshairs over it and it’ll be fine. Same thing with a holo-sight and whatnot.

[kevin.granade]

let me put it this way.
positive dispersion: it might not hit exactly where you’re aiming.
0 dispersion: it hits exactly where you’re aiming (but you might be aiming at the wrong spot and therefor miss anyway)
negative dispersion: It hits the target even if you aren’t aiming at it.

Obviously option #3 makes absolutely no sense, so unless we add smart bullets or something (not totally out of the question), you can NEVER get negative dispersion from any part of the firing system. The goal is to bring each source of inaccuracy down as close to 0 as possible.

[Paquito]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:9, topic:3943”]let me put it this way.
positive dispersion: it might not hit exactly where you’re aiming.
0 dispersion: it hits exactly where you’re aiming (but you might be aiming at the wrong spot and therefor miss anyway)
negative dispersion: It hits the target even if you aren’t aiming at it.

Obviously option #3 makes absolutely no sense, so unless we add smart bullets or something (not totally out of the question), you can NEVER get negative dispersion from any part of the firing system. The goal is to bring each source of inaccuracy down as close to 0 as possible.[/quote]

Thanks! Does the Targeting System bionic simply lower dispersion, or does it improve the chance to hit in some other way? If the latter, then should stuff like rifle scopes affect accuracy in that way, rather than lowering dispersion?

[kevin.granade]

Thanks! Does the Targeting System bionic simply lower dispersion, or does it improve the chance to hit in some other way? If the latter, then should stuff like rifle scopes affect accuracy in that way, rather than lowering dispersion?

Checked the code, the targeting bionic actually does work around dispersion, it lowers effective range to the target. Effectively this is similar to lowering dispersion across the board, but it can’t go negative. This is barely justifyiable considering it’s assumed to be compensating for weapon, handling, sight, target motion, everything.

A scope simply helps you aim, it doesn’t help you lead the target (perception, skill) or hold the gun steady (dex, skill), so the effect is to reduce the dispersion of the gun itself, which means it caps at 0. It also can’t compensate for poor ammunition, so the best you can do is bring the weapon’s dispersion stat down to 0. (it can compensate for other gunmods though, so if you have a silencer and a scope they can cancel out.)

[Paquito]

A scope simply helps you aim, it doesn’t help you lead the target (perception, skill) or hold the gun steady (dex, skill), so the effect is to reduce the dispersion of the gun itself, which means it caps at 0. It also can’t compensate for poor ammunition, so the best you can do is bring the weapon’s dispersion stat down to 0. (it can compensate for other gunmods though, so if you have a silencer and a scope they can cancel out.)

I dunno about that. The scope itself isn’t improving how the gun functions, or the bullets that come out of it. Aim a skill of the wielder, like the ability to lead a target and a steady hand. That being the case, perhaps a gun’s scope should improve your “ranged bonus”. That’d make sense, since it’s improving your perception, and perception increases your ranged bonus.

[youtoo]

i never understood how dispersion worked.

[kevin.granade]

I dunno about that. The scope itself isn’t improving how the gun functions, or the bullets that come out of it. Aim a skill of the wielder, like the ability to lead a target and a steady hand. That being the case, perhaps a gun’s scope should improve your “ranged bonus”. That’d make sense, since it’s improving your perception, and perception increases your ranged bonus.

You don’t seem to be getting it, there is no “ranged bonus”. There is a degree of potential inaccuracy contributed by the stats and skills of the player, the ammunition, and the gun, in degrees (quarter degrees technically). If you want to be totally accurate, you have to bring all of the contributions to dispersion down to 0, or at least as low as you can, and you can’t compensate for one with another.

[Paquito]

You don’t seem to be getting it, there is no “ranged bonus”. There is a degree of potential inaccuracy contributed by the stats and skills of the player, the ammunition, and the gun, in degrees (quarter degrees technically). If you want to be totally accurate, you have to bring all of the contributions to dispersion down to 0, or at least as low as you can, and you can’t compensate for one with another.

Ok, just to make things clear:

• I didn’t understand what “dispersion” was when I wrote the OP. I understand now that it’s a measure of how accurate the shot is, as determined strictly by the mechanics of the gun and the bullets its firing. If you’re measuring the dispersion of a gun, you’d lock it into a fixed position, fire several shots, and examine where the shots ended up.

• When I refer to “ranged bonus”, I’m referring to what we, as players, are told is increased when we put points into dexterity and perception. I don’t know how the underlying code works, and I assumed this was an attribute distinct from the dispersion attribute that’s related to guns and ammo. Is this bonus simply one more thing that lowers your weapon’s dispersion stat?

• Human error doesn’t have anything to do with dispersion. Here’s your explanation of dispersion above (emphasis mine):

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:9, topic:3943”]let me put it this way.
positive dispersion: it might not hit exactly where you’re aiming.

0 dispersion: it hits exactly where you’re aiming (but you might be aiming at the wrong spot and therefor miss anyway)

negative dispersion: It hits the target even if you aren’t aiming at it.[/quote]

You’re making a distinction here between the the weapons dispersion and the player’s ability to aim accurately. Firing a weapon with 0 dispersion can still be more or less accurate depending on the shooter’s ability to aim. A rifle scope makes it easier to accurately aim at what you’re intending to hit. Hence, a rifle scope should increase the ability to hit your target in a way that has nothing to do with the dispersion value of the gun or the ammuintion you’re firing.

[Weyrling]

- When I refer to “ranged bonus”, I’m referring to what we, as players, are told is increased when we put points into dexterity and perception. I don’t know how the underlying code works, and I assumed this was an attribute distinct from the dispersion attribute that’s related to guns and ammo. Is this bonus simply one more thing that lowers your weapon’s dispersion stat?

There is no longer a ranged bonus, only a penalty for having low dexterity/perception. When you increase dex you are decreasing your penalty, not increasing your bonus.
Once you have 12 Dex and 12 Per, the stats no longer help you aim better, having higher stats simply allows you to encumber your eyes/arms/hands without taking these penalties.