Balancing the game

[John_Candlebury]

You could just reduce the range of the nail gun to like 2 squares and keep it the same.

The nail gun does operate like that, its however still a win button except when you get cornered by zombie dogs, a nailgun shouldn’t be a win button under any circumstance.

You can try it if you don’t believe me, as log as you burst fire nothing will get close to you.

[Let_it_end_in_hellfi]

I did something similar locally a while back, my changes were something like:

1. All zombies with speed less than 100 were raised to 100 (crawling and fat or whatever can stay slow, it doesn’t really matter) so you can’t trivially kite them to death with a thrown rock.
2. All terrain (including vehicle parts) that were slower to cross than grass were made normal speed. This is the single most overpowered thing in DDA I would say. A shrub lets you kill pretty much any early zombie with no skills and take no damage. You can bludgeon a bear to death unharmed with a pipe and a shopping cart. This is completely ridiculous.
3. Quick and fleet-flooted removed as choices during chargen (I left them in as mutagen results as you’ve won the game long ago by the time you can make that). Quick is probably the best trait in the game currently (as in, if you aren’t picking quick, you should be), and they throw the previous two changes out the window.

Possibly there were some item changes, but I don’t remember now.

[Binky]

I think someone’s beat me to the nail gun nerf - it says that it does 0 ranged damage now.

Lets keep it up though, it seems as though we might actually be getting somewhere for once - unfortunately I seem to have royally messed up github (I usually use bitbucket) so apologies for that.

[Binky]

[quote=“Let it end in hellfire!, post:62, topic:4901”]I did something similar locally a while back, my changes were something like:

1. All zombies with speed less than 100 were raised to 100 (crawling and fat or whatever can stay slow, it doesn’t really matter) so you can’t trivially kite them to death with a thrown rock.
2. All terrain (including vehicle parts) that were slower to cross than grass were made normal speed. This is the single most overpowered thing in DDA I would say. A shrub lets you kill pretty much any early zombie with no skills and take no damage. You can bludgeon a bear to death unharmed with a pipe and a shopping cart. This is completely ridiculous.
3. Quick and fleet-flooted removed as choices during chargen (I left them in as mutagen results as you’ve won the game long ago by the time you can make that). Quick is probably the best trait in the game currently (as in, if you aren’t picking quick, you should be), and they throw the previous two changes out the window.

Possibly there were some item changes, but I don’t remember now.[/quote]

If you can be bothered, push all of those on github, they sound like good ideas, and we can backya up!

[Nickboom]

Its fine mate, I think its impress that your working on the code instead of just talking about it. I would keep it up

[John_Candlebury]

[quote=“Binky, post:64, topic:4901”][quote=“Let it end in hellfire!, post:62, topic:4901”]I did something similar locally a while back, my changes were something like:

1. All zombies with speed less than 100 were raised to 100 (crawling and fat or whatever can stay slow, it doesn’t really matter) so you can’t trivially kite them to death with a thrown rock.
2. All terrain (including vehicle parts) that were slower to cross than grass were made normal speed. This is the single most overpowered thing in DDA I would say. A shrub lets you kill pretty much any early zombie with no skills and take no damage. You can bludgeon a bear to death unharmed with a pipe and a shopping cart. This is completely ridiculous.
3. Quick and fleet-flooted removed as choices during chargen (I left them in as mutagen results as you’ve won the game long ago by the time you can make that). Quick is probably the best trait in the game currently (as in, if you aren’t picking quick, you should be), and they throw the previous two changes out the window.

Possibly there were some item changes, but I don’t remember now.[/quote]

If you can be bothered, push all of those on github, they sound like good ideas, and we can backya up![/quote]

No wait I don’t think those are actually good ideas myself, they are zombies after all, you should be able to outrun them in most situations. The bush penalty was reduced a while ago if i remember correctly, but its really one of the few things that make melee not suicidal, I guess we could only remove it once we had something that makes more sense take its place. Dunno about quick.

[Binky]

No wait I don’t think those are actually good ideas myself, they are zombies after all, you should be able to outrun them in most situations. The bush penalty was reduced a while ago if i remember correctly, but its really one of the few things that make melee not suicidal, I guess we could only remove it once we had something that makes more sense take its place. Dunno about quick.

You still can outrun them as long as you don’t get into melee (drugs as well) but you’re possibly right, most should be less than 100, although possibly higher than they are now.

Skill removal definitely needs to happen, but as they’re choices it’s kinda easy to ignore/for an ‘easy’ mode.

I’m firmly behind terrain normalisation though, as it’s just ridiculous.

[ClaytonRISING]

How would you guys feel about raising the rarity of powerful ammo? Like, especially the ammo for the futuristic weapons. From one Gun Store I got like 400+ 20x66(IIRC) caseless ammo, and that’s even with the item spawn lowered a bit lol.

[Inadequate]

The bionic patient profession probably needs to be taken out, it outclasses practically every other profession by a fair margin. You can grab a pipe, activate hydraulic muscles and beeline directly towards the nearest grocery store, where you can refuel and grab a cart for food/kiting. By moving from store to store, picking up the occasional healing item along the way, a bionic patient can clear a small town on their first day easily.

[Binky]

How would you guys feel about raising the rarity of powerful ammo? Like, especially the ammo for the futuristic weapons. From one Gun Store I got like 400+ 20x66(IIRC) caseless ammo, and that’s even with the item spawn lowered a bit lol.

The bionic patient profession probably needs to be taken out, it outclasses practically every other profession by a fair margin. You can grab a pipe, activate hydraulic muscles and beeline directly towards the nearest grocery store, where you can refuel and grab a cart for food/kiting. By moving from store to store, picking up the occasional healing item along the way, a bionic patient can clear a small town on their first day easily.

John, would you do the honours as I seem incapable at the moment of doing anything?

[John_Candlebury]

I will gladly to do it tommorrow, its already pretty late here were I live.

[Ferodaktyl]

so let’s make bushes and windows have 200 instead of 4, and let’s make trees climbable, with a chance to fall off and take damage/break a limb.
This changes need some serious testing before being definitely applied though.

[Binky]

I will gladly to do it tommorrow, its already pretty late here were I live.

Thanks, I’ll check back tomorrow as well, so if you need a hand PM me.

[KA101]

Just gonna throw out that I have a perfectly serviceable thread open on critter melee strength. So far folks have been voting but not commenting.

As for the rest, well, I suspect our opinions differ. Greatly.

[EkarusRyndren]

How would you guys feel about raising the rarity of powerful ammo? Like, especially the ammo for the futuristic weapons. From one Gun Store I got like 400+ 20x66(IIRC) caseless ammo, and that’s even with the item spawn lowered a bit lol.

Unless every single “ammo” spot in that gunstore spawned with 20x66 slugs in all flavors there’s no way you got 400+ rounds. Unless you jacked up the item spawn rate.

Unless you mean the 5x50 rounds, which spawn in large groups because the gun they’re used for is a pea-shooter SMG.

[infectedmochi]

The PRs you guys put on github are somehow messed up, maybe separate each commit (zombie buff, recipe removal, armor nerf) and make each of them a PR so the devs can review them easily? As for the actual change and balance suggestions here: I agree that zombie needs a buff, the nerf to wakizaki spawn is good too, ammo spawn rate maybe but I don’t have an estimation here. Op profession or trait? Just make them cost more, you don’t have to remove them. In general, I’m leaning toward the solution “If they are op, nerf or make them rarer”

[ClaytonRISING]

[quote=“Clayton, post:68, topic:4901”]How would you guys feel about raising the rarity of powerful ammo? Like, especially the ammo for the futuristic weapons. From one Gun Store I got like 400+ 20x66(IIRC) caseless ammo, and that’s even with the item spawn lowered a bit lol.

Unless every single “ammo” spot in that gunstore spawned with 20x66 slugs in all flavors there’s no way you got 400+ rounds. Unless you jacked up the item spawn rate.

Unless you mean the 5x50 rounds, which spawn in large groups because the gun they’re used for is a pea-shooter SMG.[/quote]

Uh…no.

I should have mentioned that it was the different types of ammo, though. Like frag, beanbag, incendiary, ect.

[Bonevomit]

The problem is that you can’t please everyone. I think this whole thing is a lost cause. Terrible balance and piles of pointless tut is what defines DDA. You can’t just tear it all down. Are you kidding?

I’ve played DDA, had fun dress up time or whatever, and eventually just got bored. That’s just what DDA is, and for the most part that was what the original Cataclysm was. I plan on checking out Cataclysm 2 for that reason. DDA is a mod to keep Cataclysm going a bit longer in my eyes. It just staves off the inevitable. And it’s succeeded in that regard for me. But it’s a sandbox game with no set ending, it’s bound to disappoint anyone eventually. Removing features won’t balance the game. You will just have the same game but with less to do.

You guys have what is essentially a finished product and are saying “This is all wrong! Do it again!” Do you realize you’re just going to end up with a big pile of nothing after removing all that content? It might be a house of cards but even if you knock it down you still need to put up something more stable. Cataclysm isn’t really a deep game. If you think the late game is too easy just crank up the zombie spawn and try to get there again. After that you just have to accept you have seen everything that the game has to offer.

What’s being put on the table is a total snore-fest. Now you’re talking about the amount of ammo in the stores. Who gives a shit? Jesus Christ. this is supposed to be a video game, not tax reform. The fact that this is even an issue shows how boring and lame this whole process has become. Is the difference really worth this discussion?

If you really want to make the game more fun, grab the source and make your own mod. Take it all in a new direction, be creative. Whales is already making a balanced Cataclysm, why waste your time attempting to convert DDA? You will just end up with a crappier version of Cataclysm 2.

[ClaytonRISING]

Tread softly, Bonevomit! This community doesn’t like it when you say Cataclysm 2 just might be good or even better than DDA.

[Bonevomit]

Tread softly, Bonevomit! This community doesn’t like it when you say Cataclysm 2 just might be good or even better than DDA.

Better? That depends on who you ask. Apparently most people here just like silly wacky roleplaying, they could give less of a shit about balance.

I just call it how I see it. You all want to balance DDA, maybe tone down the weird nerd stuff. You’re just taking the entire project back to square one.

Why bother? Whales is already making a cataclysm that’s more balanced. We don’t need one Cataclysm 2 done with Whales sleek new code and one with DDA’s rustbucket code. I think I’m starting to realize that it’s the crazy atmosphere of DDA that might be its future. And maybe if you don’t take it too seriously it’s not so bad, after all you have options now.

Just calm down. Whales is bringing a balanced Cataclysm 2, and for everyone who likes running around as sexy magic kitsune maid cyborg with a flaming zweihander there will be DDA. Everyone wins.