[Balance] Weapon : Pipe

[Oragepoilu]

Why does this item is so good ?
16 (b)ash, +3 to hit, 93speed.
All other item you can get/craft are way worst (slower, or less damage)
Wood spear is 4(b)ash 12§iercing +1(to hit) 99(sp)eed.
nail bat is 20b 6p +3 but 112sp

The only weapon near his DPS is the Cestus
12b +0 89sp;
And this item is intented to work with martial art at first i think.

And you can find a pipe everywhere … some weapon could be better with some tag like the one that allow to attack twice faster sometime, but because you can’t control it, it may lead you being hit sometime if you don’t get any proc against some monster/Z.

Usually slow weapon are onlly nice when they got (to hit) bonus because you may only use them at really low skill (after, a quick weapon is always better anyway)

For the sake of gameplay, either explain to me why it must be so OP (making half weapon in the game pointless in melee) or nerf it (Bash should be more around 12 and speed around 120, maybe 110 …) or even maybe explain if i can change it myself (without compilation because i don’t really know what it mean nor know how to do).

[Orcling]

It’s not that the pipe is too good, the other weapons are just too bad and zombies too weak.

[JanBlair]

Give me a pipe and I’ll show you…heh, just kidding. It’s because of the new influx of many many weapons without testing for balance.

[Luissen]

I like the Pipe because it’s extremely accessible and powerful. if it was nerfed slightly, I would still use it, but probably not as a primary.

[Roame]

I have to agree. It should really be a small step below a crowbar in my opinion, perhaps identical to the crowbar minus the cut damage…

[Nighthawk]

Yeaaaah… pipe needs to be nerfed and that’s just about the bottom line. The fact that you can get it so easily so soon makes it kind of stupid to do anything else but smash that locker with your bare hands and grab it.

In an open-ended roguelike, I think that you should be rewarded for exploration and experimentation, not sticking to the same old strategy.

I say nerf it, or make it harder to find.

[Chaz]

Even as a relatively inexperienced player, finding myself sticking to using the pipe as a melee weapon early on in the game does get dull after a while. I agree that it should be balanced out or nerfed! I’m not sure if it should be made harder to find, however, I’d still like to be able to get myself a makeshift crowbar before I set out to start raiding some houses.

I’d say lower the pipe’s damage a bit, and make it a slower weapon to swing. That’s my thoughts for nerfing pipes, at least!

[Inadequate]

Nerf it if you must, but don’t make it harder to find. Quite a lot of construction recipes depend on pipes.

[Oragepoilu]

Wow, didn’t tought they would so much ppl.

I think everything is here ;

-Actuallt a lot of weapon just come, and make the balance of the game sound like joke

-There is better thing to do than re balance weapon because they may have new soon/ more change into the skills

-Some weapon are way way way more powerfull than it should be, in a way that make the game less enjoyable.

=> Quick fix : lower dmg, reduce attack speed (increase speed value).

In fact, i can’t help about how weapon should be balanced because i don’t exactly know how work bash/cut/piercing dmg

[Inadequate]

I can barely parse that last post, but it’s not particularly surprising that a ‘nerf ___’ thread would get so many replies. From what I’ve seen around here, you could title a thread ‘nerf walking’, type absolute gibberish in the first post, and end up with people making a seven-step mechanic to determine whether you complete a step without tripping over.

Anyhow, I can’t tell whether you’re in favor of nerfing it or not from that last post, but if you really wanted to figure out how damage works the wiki gives a quick overview on enemy weaknesses.

[AerialK7]

IMO the damage should be nerfed, not the speed. Its an extremely light weapon (800 grams) allowing for a really fast swing, but not much of a punch being packed.

Though, it doesnt really affect me, I never ever use the pipe.

EDIT: This belongs in the suggestions board.

[Oragepoilu]

[quote=“Inadequate, post:10, topic:4203”]I can barely parse that last post, but it’s not particularly surprising that a ‘nerf ___’ thread would get so many replies. From what I’ve seen around here, you could title a thread ‘nerf walking’, type absolute gibberish in the first post, and end up with people making a seven-step mechanic to determine whether you complete a step without tripping over.

Anyhow, I can’t tell whether you’re in favor of nerfing it or not from that last post, but if you really wanted to figure out how damage works the wiki gives a quick overview on enemy weaknesses.[/quote]

(I may repeat myself in this post)
First, no offense but i found that your name suit your post.
I don’t think we are in a forum of LoL or any competitive game, so talking like “i ask nerf for the purpose of nerfing stuff” while i’v clearly put [balance] in the title just make sound like you don’t understand this :
bad balance make bad game (at last, for this type of game)
Actually we aren’t at this point and i don’t mind that much because a lot of change happened recently; it’s just annoying to skip so much weapon because of a pipe you find in a locker right next to you after 3 turn of game, and that’s why i would like to see stuff like this disapear (= nerf it).

In the end i can’t understand why you say this. If you have such a big problem with the word “nerf” they i could edit my post and remove it, but it won’t change something. Fell free to ask for it, tought.
If you think that i didn’t research information about how damage work, and because of that you think i fall into the the category of ppl “always asking nerf/ in favor of nerf with stupid theory in mind”, I’m sure you’r wrong.
Wiki don’t help that much as far as i know, and i’m not even sure if i could “trust” stuff written here because, well it’s a wiki of a small community, and a lot of change happen.

I’ underligned a part of your text that i don’t really understand (english isn’t my native lunguage), if someone could explain it in different way it could be nice, tu be sure i’m not wrong.

@aerialK7 yeah change the speed would be strange but may be less painfull for early player with low str. Also feel free to report my post if you think it should go in suggestion thread, i can’t change it myself ^^

[infectedmochi]

The problem with the pipe is, I think, there are so many ways to interpret it. For many recipes that the pipe is a component in, we can have different estimates of weight, length and shape (hollow or not), in turn this make balance the pipe realistically when concerning both game balance and crafting realism a hard task.

I agree that we should reduce it’s effectiveness, or “nerf” it, there are many ways to do this though. And the merged PR made the pipe heavier (from 762gr to 1262gr) and reduce bash damage (16 to 12). Which seems reasonable IMO, though we’d like to suggest we distribute the “nerf” more even like reduce bash damage to 14 and decrease to-hit to +1.

[Nighthawk]

@ Orangepoilu

To “Parse” is to analyze, to look over, to break up into smaller parts for the purpose of comprehension. In this case, it might as well be a synonym for “understand,” meaning Inadequate was having trouble understanding what you were trying to say.
The “without tripping over” bit refers to tripping over one’s own feet, or an object, while walking. Inadequate was poking fun at the fact that threads regarding a nerf of any kind usually result in a lot of controversy in these forums (or any forum, for that matter).

Oh, and as far as this:

First, no offense but i found that your name [Inadequate] suit your post.

If you’re going to post here, please have the courtesy to keep your offhand insults to yourself, thank you.

[Oragepoilu]

@Nighthawk
Oh, okay, wasn’t exactly was i tought. Thx for details.

If you’re going to post here, please have the courtesy to keep your offhand insults to yourself, thank you.

Was more a joke than something else, found his name funny, and his post wasn’t mainly about the topic. And when i writte “no offense” it’s because i mean it; so don’t be to fast to judge.

[Inadequate]

Well, Nighthawk already explained it, so I’ll just add that there’s no offense taken on my part. Personally I don’t have much of a dog in this fight anyhow, I hardly ever go with melee. I was just mentioning that there’s a quick explanation of how different damage types work on the wiki, if you really want to find out. As long as nobody actually cuts down the number of pipes you can find, I don’t particularly care about how hard it hits.

[Nighthawk]

@ Orangepoilu
Ah, my bad. I can be pretty righteous at times, and that, along with the fact that jokes and sarcasm don’t transfer very well through text made me feel like you were trying to be insulting. Sorry about that.

Oh, and sorry to everyone else for sort of derailing the thread.

[Pageman]

Sure the pipe is a good weapon but i find no fun using it. After a while i stopped worrying about weapon stats, i just use what i think is fun and badass. with enough skill anything can be a reasonable weapon and to me is a matter of personal choice.
It is up to you to decide what to use. Cataclysm just give you the options like the real world would.