Armor skill

[GrizzlyAdamz]

This absolutely must have been mentioned before, but why not make an armor skill?

Yes, 5+ encumberment is quite fair for a newbie to plate armor- they’re more apt to fall over than anything else, but if one knows how to move in it, it shouldn’t be more than 2-3. It’d still slow down your movement & dodge a little, and your range of motion is lesser (melee to-hit), but with knowledge one can properly compensate for it.

-would make the ‘Knight’ playstyle more defined as a specialization, with a higher entrance cost but greater reward.

Suggestion: increase encumberment, but add an ‘armor’ flag that subtracts encumberment according to one’s armor skill. At max level having 1-2 encumberment in your set of armor would be worth the time & effort put into it.

Other semi-related suggestions:
-Morale bonus when in full armor
-Interaction with bionics? Might be difficult to use that miniflamethrower while wearing plate gauntlets.
-cut-down armor to allow bionics use- (slightly) less coverage, (slightly) less encumberment
-Clank noises & oiling?

[HS1342]

We would need shields…
sudden realization
WE NEED DUAL WIELDING

But yes, this is a good idea

[EkarusRyndren]

I like the sound of this, though as far as bionic interaction quite a few of them are minimally hindered by clothing. The Mini-flamethrower is two bits on a finger on each hand right? Solar Panels and Fusion Blaster Arm are really the only ones I know off off-hand that might be hugely affected by that.

Bonus points for players falling over (Using the “Struggle to stand” mechanic?) for trying to romp about in full plate armor with 0 armor skill? XD

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“HS1342, post:2, topic:3477”]We would need shields…
sudden realization
WE NEED DUAL WIELDING

But yes, this is a good idea[/quote]

Shields could be implemented as a “clothing” item that prevents 2h item usage, grants a strong block and additional armor/weight/encumbrance to the equipped arm. Bonus points for implementing some kind of weak attack.

Oh hey, and

as far as bionic interaction quite a few of them are minimally hindered by clothing. The Mini-flamethrower is two bits on a finger on each hand right?

Well, you’d need those two fingers free to be able to spew fire no? I’d imagine a modified set of gauntlets would have an uncovered palm so your android hand can do it’s morphy bit to use palm/finger bionics. Plus slits for wolverine claws.

[EkarusRyndren]

To the first point I would love to see Riot Shields in game at some point…
Riot Shield - Some of which are bullet-resistant to small caliber rounds
Ballistic Shield - Bigger, better, less visibility.

As far as the gloves are concerned I see your point, but still I don’t see it being something that needs to be done to a huge degree. That said it would allow for “You activate your Adamantine Claws and cut your gloves” moments XD

[esran]

shields definately sound interesting. i want one for power armour knight that wields the rising sun.

[Sharklaser]

Armor skill can contribute max of 45% reduction to encumberment as pure skill

Str/Dex derived value can contribute max of 45% reduction to encumberment.

Reduction is capped at 70% from all sources.

Reduction is calculated for hands, feet, legs, torso and arms and mouth (not head or eyes since these are passive).

This way you can play knightly type but you have to be either extremely strong/agile and well trained to reach to cap - or you have to moderately strong/agile and be extremely skilled to reach the cap.

Anyone can reach the skill based 45% reduction by training vigorously.

You train armor skill only when average encumberment rate of all your bodyparts is above 3 - INCLUDING the armor skill & strength based reduction (you have to add armor if your skill in armor drops encumberment too low to keep training and/or if youre so strong/agile it makes easy to wear encumbering stuff)

Skill checks:
for skill levels 1-2 it is enough simply to walk around for hour - or anything below
for skill levels 3-4 if you do tasks that encumberment affects (climbing,crafts,picklocking etc)- or anything below
for skill level 5-6 you need to fight/dodge melee, fight ranged, dodge ranged or swim (swimming extremely dangerous?)
for skill level 7-10 you need to fight/dodge melee or dodge ranged.
from skill level 10+ only melee/dodge will train armor skill.

[esran]

You train armor skill only when average encumberment rate of all your bodyparts is above 3 - INCLUDING the armor skill reduction (you have to add armor if your skill in armor drops encumberment too low to keep training.)

so its harder to train for stronger characters? no thanks.

[Sharklaser]

[quote=“Sharklaser, post:7, topic:3477”]You train armor skill only when average encumberment rate of all your bodyparts is above 3 - INCLUDING the armor skill reduction (you have to add armor if your skill in armor drops encumberment too low to keep training.)

so its harder to train for stronger characters? no thanks.[/quote]

EDIT: I noticed my description lacked strength/dex based effect… added it there. Well spotted esran.

So if you’re strong&agile your physique would help you use heavier armors to train than other characters. You only need to overcome the average of 3 encumbrance.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Hmm, sounds complicated.

I’d’ve just had it so that it subtracts a number of points- this way, the lightest armor (o-yoroi?) would have 0-1 encumberment, and the heaviest armor (PLATEMAIL) would be 2-3.

For training it, encumbrance might be a good measure but as mentioned, it penalizes strong/good characters. It also gets clothing mixed up with the armor, so that’s not a great measure of armor training me thinks.

Instead I’d base it on the number of armor flags you’re wearing, and possibly add a couple varieties to encourage donning a full suit instead of just gauntlets & boots, (SMALLARMOR, MEDIUMARMOR, FULLARMOR for gauntlets, helmet, & torso, respectively).

I agree walking around should help but only for the first couple levels. Otherwise just use dodging/melee & whatever applicable actions are easiest to implement, (if using things that check encumberment is easy, that sounds good).

[Sharklaser]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:10, topic:3477”]Hmm, sounds complicated.

Instead I’d base it on the number of armor flags you’re wearing, and possibly add a couple varieties to encourage donning a full suit instead of just gauntlets & boots, (SMALLARMOR, MEDIUMARMOR, FULLARMOR for gauntlets, helmet, & torso, respectively).[/quote]

Well… isnt “Small armor” basically same as thing that encumbers you 2-3, Medium armor something that encumbers you 4-5 etc etc? We already have something that tells items armor-likeness (in terms of how it affects your movement, not its scaling protection value) - and we do have the protection values too available. What if “armor” is something that gives atleast 2 points of protection per 1 point of encumbering it yields?

And what about layering stuff? You put on two leather jackets and a hoodie for extra protection - that in my books counts as “armor relevant” setup.

Maybe things that are flagged as “Real armor” could provide this skill quicker.

[Miloch]

As someone who has worn body armor IRL wearing it over time definitely makes a difference.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:10, topic:3477”]snip

Well… isnt “Small armor” basically same as thing that encumbers you 2-3, Medium armor something that encumbers you 4-5 etc etc? We already have something that tells items armor-likeness (in terms of how it affects your movement, not its scaling protection value) - and we do have the protection values too available. What if “armor” is something that gives atleast 2 points of protection per 1 point of encumbering it yields?

And what about layering stuff? You put on two leather jackets and a hoodie for extra protection - that in my books counts as “armor relevant” setup.

Maybe things that are flagged as “Real armor” could provide this skill quicker.[/quote]

Nah, wearing three leather jackets != wearing platemail.
My impression of plate armor:
-Hard breaks in range of motion, (can’t lift elbow higher than shoulder depending on pauldrons)
-Unexpected ‘catching’ between different parts
-Uneven distribution of weight, especially with bits that can move freely, (swinging around when you don’t expect it)

All of those can be exacerbated without knowledge of fitting, dressing, and use.

Layered clothing is just…‘Ralphie’

Using flags is simpler and more effective, keeps clothing and armor separate so that you can’t become proficient in utilizing plate by wearing 2 pairs of socks, t shirts, long underwear, etc.

[Miloch]

Flags or based on amount of protection provided by the singular pieces.

[Sharklaser]

[quote=“Sharklaser, post:11, topic:3477”]snip

Nah, wearing three leather jackets != wearing platemail.[/quote]

But its very similar to wearing hard leather armor or well padded chainmail - so you are actually pushing this towards “Plate mail skill” instead of more general “Armor skill”

[vultures]

I’m not exactly sure how to put it, but Armor skill is definitely an improvement.
In a traditional fantasy RPG, you have both magic and material quality defining armor class with Light/Medium/Heavy armor sets.
Here you’ve got Item Volume, Weight, Damage Reduction, Coverage AND Warmth through layers, so encumberance should be the least of your
worries to bring up a versatile Armor skill that should look out for for cloth, leather, metal and Power Armor items.
If you wanted to alter the core of this game, you should look into the whole combat mechanics. You should encounter functions that take care
of what goes on after your armor is hit, or even when your enemy bypasses it. Then you could calculate bonuses so your armor pieces don’t
break down over time just as much, and take some hints from martial arts codelines for further damage reduction.
Since we (yet) can’t have perks, I doubt you could have “Butterfly” or “Tank” bonuses for timely experience with a specific “string” of bodypart
encumbering pieces. This is, however, the part where Skill Rust can actually be of great use - your Armor and Style bonuses could be derived
from the skills you are affectionate with further generating somesuch as “temporary perks” lines of code. But again - these are some of my
ideas that only make sense in theory.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“GrizzlyAdamz, post:10, topic:3477”][quote=“Sharklaser, post:11, topic:3477”]snip

Nah, wearing three leather jackets != wearing platemail.[/quote]

But its very similar to wearing hard leather armor or well padded chainmail - so you are actually pushing this towards “Plate mail skill” instead of more general “Armor skill”[/quote]

It’d be at the implementer’s discretion what gets a flag. But yes, my original suggestion was for anything with plates, scales, or dedicated armor to get it.