as the title, i wonder is it possible to have special martial arts that include a mounted combat maybe bicycle or motorcycle can work too. such as lance jousting or the one that using sword/saber or glaive type one example that i know off is freydal kaiser maximilian manuscript
also mongolian mounted acrobatic (i dont know its name) the one where they can even ride while bellow the horse belly and the side body as example that maybe can increase dodge.
one example of sword technique on horse
From the frequently made suggestions list:
Add a lance charge for massive damage bonuses: yes, but not the way most people imagine it.
The general understanding of how lances work is badly warped by depictions of jousting tournaments in books and movies, dungeons and dragons and video games.
A successful lance charge is always going to result in the rider no longer holding a working lance, just think about the mechanics of it.
You’re moving very quickly toward your target, as you approach you hit them with the lance and run them through, then you keep moving forward. At this point, either the lance breaks off, the rider drops the lance, or the rider is pulled off their mount by their grip on the lance.
Absolute best case, you’re looking at expending one lance per attack, and retrieving your lances after the fight.
More likely, you’re breaking lances every time you use them in a charge, and you need to re-craft a new set of lances every time you use them.
On the plus side, they would tend to do quite a lot of damage, so using a few to pick off several particularly tough targets or even just thin the numbers of a group of enemies could still be worthwhile, but not nearly the “lots more damage for free” concept that most people seem to think of.
Mechanically, this would replace the strength stat of the attacker with a calculation based on attacker body weight times vehicle speed, with a stability check to avoid being knocked off of the vehicle or having the entire vehicle knocked over.
Use a warhorse for lance attacks: mod only.
This brings us to the topic of warhorses, which for all practical purposes do not exist in the dark days ahead scenario. There might be a handful of people training warhorses on the planet, but they’re so rare as to essentially not exist, and the chances of any trained warhorses surviving the cataclysm are minuscule.
Mods of course are free to have warhorses or other warbeasts as they wish.
Use a lance on a bicycle or motorcycle.
I’d expect the impact a bicycle rider can sustain without knocking themselves off their bike to be much lower than what a horse rider could handle.
I’d buy a lightly modified motorcycle allowing effective lance attacks, but see above regarding the shortcomings of lance attacks in general.
for the breaking lance i think that occurred when they hit hard object such as plate armor and shield but against naked flesh i doubt it, so far i rarely heard that occurring against the polish hussar which even using lighter lance but theres a chance the lance stuck in the opponent flesh though.
oh yeah i forgot to add theres also technique that mean for proper “spear” which are different from lance charge or thrust.
this technique make it so the spear dont over trust to deep and easy to retrieve back also allowed to throw short spear like javelin and also less likely to break.
for the knock off for bicycle or motorcycle i have different opinion about that since proper medieval heavy lancer or joust saddle have a backsupport called cantel that help prevent that, maybe add that as one of the feature of horse armor.
ah shit my reply gone i dunno what happen after i simply edit my comment since new user are not allowed to link more than two and it simply gone, but here one that i manage to salvage or remember.
for lance breaking, in my opinion that usually happen against harder object such as plate armor or shield but against naked flesh i doubt it, oh yeah also that usually against opponent cavalry opposite charge, and i rarely heard it occurred against the polish hussar which even using lighter lance but the chance it stuck in opponent body is likely though.
also i vaguely remember that jousting lance are intentionally mean to break they even position it in an arc or angle that fail to thrust opponent shield properly or something like that, including they use a shofter and easier to crack wood, but not so for the war type generally at least, which even have a huge variant lance which basically a huge wooden log with metal tip and less tapered and that one i am sure are harder to break. (sorry cant found the image so far)
here found the video of it instead and it clearly dont break against the target metal helm despite doesnt have the metal tip yet. also it dont need to be so fast either.
for the bicycle or motorcycle knockoff one i have different opinion about that since proper heavy lancer or joust saddle or barding have backsupport called cantel to prevent that chance to likely occurred maybe add that feature to the horse armor.
also theres a technique for proper “spear” which are different from lance technique or thrust
this help to prevent the spear to over thrust to deep to prevent it stuck in opponent body, better aim control, less likely to break and help in throwing for shorter spear or javelin type.
Unfortunately your opinion is wrong - The problem isn’t “Flesh shouldn’t be harder than wood” because for the most part, you are correct. The hardness of the target wasn’t actually much of a problem for lances, whether facing plate or mail, as long as they managed to start to bite in rather than be deflected. The problem is you now have a lance, embedded in a ~180lb body that was more or less stationary relative to the person who held the other end, stomping by on a horse at roughly thirty miles an hour. That person is holding the other end of the lance, and is continuing forward. Physics demands that something in this equation take up the sudden and immense force generated by accelerating this 180lb mass up to those speeds, or for something somewhere to break and/or release their grip upon the mass at some point. The human wrist and hand is unlikely to hold up to that force - Even a lance couch only ensures that you maintain grip long enough to force the lance into a target, not retain for good. Either your letting go of that thing, or your wrist is breaking, or the lance breaks. If you somehow retain all of the above, your likely to be pulled off the horse by the sudden force. A proper setup helped prevent you from sliding off if you held on too long, but then you’re starting to get back into questioning the next point of failure, probably the shoulder. There’s a reason we don’t have accurate historical accounts of knights just casually lifting their lanced victims up and riding off with them.
Correct, but this is just stabbing down on someone as you pass, not a proper lance charge. Such an attack is more likely to retain your weapon as the shallow thrust and wound are likely to rip back out of the target before your wrist or spear fail, but thats also because its a very shallow thrust compared to a lance impalement. In game, it’d just be a normal spear attack, not even a reach attack due to the reduced grip length.
As for the general idea of lancing on a motorcycle, doesn’t change any of the above physics - You should be able to do it, once per lance. But once you’re bringing a motorcycle in, its probably better to just stick a spike out the front and run through targets that way, not get limbs involved.
We have plenty of historical documentation of lances breaking and being dropped/lost in combat, as the alternative was a broken or dismounted knight. As long as the cavalry didn’t get bogged up, the charge would usually get a chance to circle back around to friendly lines and pick up more lances. Lance Fournies were even named for the association after handling the weapons as retinues for knights, basically “Lance Providers”.
well i specifically speak about the lance breaking, also theres context reason why the lance break, like “armored cavalry against armored cavalry charge” and around napoleonic era it less occurring though. and i did mention it likely to stuck on opponent.
i dont know how much speed needed but in that video you dont really need to be so fast.
regarding dropping the lance i agree but it less likely to over thrust for the battle or war type lance, since they are less tapered and pretty huge, nonriding opponent likely get knock back rather than being thrust through, and theres also jousting lance that was blunt and broad and that joust type are not mean to break even against cavalry (cant found the image so far, its the one where they wear a big broad helm, the one that showed in dark soul and look like onion, it was mean to prevent the person breaking their neck upon impact by this lance)
oh yeah regarding wrist breaking or injured the shoulder i think that exaggerated since most proper form use the forearm and armpit support, including lance rest to help lessen the weight a bit and give easier control to change lance direction, theres also lance technique that only using the armpit entirely so far i dont found the image though, but i found this instead. so yeah nothing stop lancer to use both hand and i think this can help answer the problem of lifting their lanced victim up, outside of the help of the foot which is one of a way for knight to lift and keep their lance upward.
also here found the one that clearly show it only use the armpit.
also here some copy paste from one of the link in the forum regarding lance rest and grapper
Better couching ability led to increased armor. (Also influenced by better archery.) The increase in armor led to the development of heavier lances. Heavier lances and improved archery led to the development of plate armor. It is difficult to “couch/clench” the lance in the armpit with armored rerebrace and breastplate. The shock of impact tends to push the lance backwards under the arm. This led to the development of the lance rest and grapper. The lance rest took the weight of the lance and along with a grapper or “stop” on the lance, allowed for the impact to be translated more directly to the breastplate and therefore the torso.
With the leather or steel grapper ring on the back of the lance, the weight of the lance and force of the impact was no longer focused on the hand. The lance rest and grapper led to the development of still heavier lances.
regarding the spear technique, yep, but theres also the horse speed there though, i am not only speak about lance charge though theres other horse technique other than jousting after all.
regarding attaching the lance to motorcycle wont that end up knock or lift up the motorcycle upon impact though? because the lance gonna bend or springing a bit when it hit unless it short.
oh yeah regarding warhorse i personally think it dont really matter much except affecting the speed and maneuvarability but since theres many dog breed as example already, well here some of my though, as far as i know for charger it indeed already gone being outcompete by arabian horse breed but for destrier it still around since it also can be use for normal riding, and as been mention arabian type still around and numeral, theres also akhal-teke and mongolian horse, if we want to specifically regarding america i think the mustang type can do too considering most mustang retain their feral behaviour and they generally have similar body like destrier as far as i know, heck most of modern horse are bigger than the old time one apparently.
and i think the martial art should also give some bonus to help control/riding the mount better maybe also give bonus for horse archering too as one of the example i can think off.
oh yeah i guess we should also include the technique for horse racing as well which may can help increase horse speed and maneuverability and control and horse hoof are dangerous anyway.
here the link for the cavalry technique and forum discussing it (which most of the argument i quickly check are regarding in the melee tournament and warfare “context”)
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110799
oh yeah there also some lance and spear that have crossguard to prevent it over thrust, one of the image example of the crossguard are in the link there.
I dunno about getting a real warhorse fit for lancing but “hot blooded” horses fit for sword slashing light cavalry are fairly common nowadays, their descendants the ones participating in the races. Cold blooded horses are less suited for fighting but they’re much more buffier and tankier than anything they had in the medieval past, I’m not sure about charging with a lance but if you made them push some sort of a deathplow through a zombie horde they wouldn’t be stopped by anything less than a hulk. A modern heavy draft horse weights up to 1.5 tons whereas medieval warhorses weighted barely half of that.
