Way of solving excessive damage of new turrets - just replace ammo type

Game Talk The Garage
1

Previosly I’ve mentioned that new turret damage a way higher than before:

Player could be one shotted in heaviest non powered armor from noticable distanse.

I think I’ve figured simple way of solving this.
Just replace turrets ammo with ammo designed vs non armored targets.
For example can be used some kind expansion ammunition. Or some analog.

It should has worse armor piercing but at the same time higher damage.

  1. This way in will be much more effisient vs begining player without armor and less efective vs preparied armored player.

  2. This will additionally prevent prepared player from being one shotted making gameplay more fluid and giving player more chances to recover.

  3. This will make ammo drop from turrets some specific niche. Dropped turrets armor will be not effecient vs high armored targets so player may prefer to find another type of armo.

  4. It is explanaible. Logically speaking army fought a lot of non armored targets. Additionaly it can make using indoors turrets somewhat safer.

  5. It is easy to implelent.

Of course it is not solving everything but it could be intresting way of balancing turrets. So you can get a lot of ammo from turrets but it will no be that effective in current situation.

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2

i thought there where different turrets types, so thats why the .50 cal turrets where really dangerous and there are 9mm too iirc, although i havent encountered any at the moment

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3

Way back when, turrets were 9mm.
Then 5.56mm turrets were added to military facilities to be more dangerous.
Then the 9mm turrets were removed and everything was 5.56 or bigger.
Oh, and they’re all full machineguns now, not just rifles.
This brings us to now, where the lighest portable turret sitting on a scientists desk is packing an M249 that can oneshot most anyone.

In my opinion, create a ‘9mm CROWS-1’ enemy to spawn in close quarters locations, leave the big turrets at corners of bases etc.
Oh, and divide the amount of ammo turrets drop by a factor of 10. 1000 rounds is ridiculous.

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4

If you can survive against a turret like that, you deserve that ammo D:

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5

i mean turret are the only danger there is really anything can be avoid even turret .turret only get you when you make mistake and heavy survivor armor + vest and reinforce arm leg armor can help .army helmet the get reinforce with kevlar does give 42 cut(bullet) so yea

6

It’s gives you roughly 34 bullet resistance, because bullets deal piercing damage.

7

and add mask balaclava hood etc will be more 34 bullet resistance

8

I occasionally find turrets questionable. As in… I can hide behind a crate, or under a cardboard box, and shuffle up to one and just wack it, and it dies.

Then I can do it the “honorable” way with the best gear I can find, and get mowed down.

Thus, I say… Be crafty.

Like… Laying down in a car going 75 into a turret. Then bulldoze through and destroy all of them before they even understand what’s going on.

I think that’s why the fences are there, but… a wire fence has it’s limits… fufufufufu

9

I feel like it should depend on the ammo type.

9mm crowd control should have a fair size clip, around 250+

Basic perimeter defense turrets, 5.56 would feel better around 100, as their main intent is to dissuade, not destroy.

and .50 cal should only have around 25. Mostly because… “WHY WOULD YOU NEED THAT!?”. Seriously, I know there are things to be kept at bay, but the most that would do is destroy your own building.

Now that’s in terms of turrets. Stationary weapons should keep their higher mag capacity, as it’s rather important to maintain a wall of lead without the need to constantly reload.

10

I think the max ammo should stay the same. It’s just that spawned enemy turrets shouldn’t be chock-full when you come across them.

11

Well, yeah. You’re not supposed to rush headlong at a machine gun emplacement; that was the lesson of World War I.
Then again, millions died before the generals figured out that honor and courage and tradition were not bulletproof. :upside_down_face:

12

Not really headlong, more… I round a corner and before it even detects me as a hostile I’m dead.

But I think a mod I’m using fixed that. So yeah… I don’t plan on playing vanilla ever again.

13

I’m not sure what game you’re playing, but the first time they detect you as hostile, they always spend 200 moves and give an audible warning.

14

Not going to argue further. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t play cata nearly enough to have a dog in this particular hunt.

15

He may have been playing an older version.

16

I don’t like discussions that ended nowhere. Because of it let’s do some conclussions. It is based on my previous observations also.

  1. Problem exist. New turrets are not in good shape now and should be altered in some way.
  2. New turrets should be more forgiving to player.
  3. Turret Ammo count should be reduced in some way.
  4. Current solutions with changed ammo type is an option but propably not preferred one.
17

1 way will be to reduce amount of bullet it fire from what is now i mean not sure if is 4 round auto like rifle but if is reduce it to 2 can really help or maybe first round it fire need to fire only 1 round to give a warning or to give time for electric engine turn on to feed belt is off to save battery or something

18

and in anyway you should never be able to rush down turret if not in heavy power armor or something

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19

In a way reducing turret burst size could help. But currently auto fire globally give too much recoil, so only first shot in burst are accurate.

So overall it would not help much now.

Looks like auto fire still balanced around 15 tiles shot range.

20

Yes, but really question about what will happend if player did it by mistake.

I think it would be better to heavily hurt player and give him chance to retreat and recovery, but not kill him. We are talking about roguelike with one life after all.

Current turrets has insane accuracy. Add on top of it 200% damage headshot modifier - and here we are.

But it is more game design question.
Overall I think current ranged despite being quite complicated produce quite simple result. Player has not a lot option to avoid fire, like changing stance or use cover. Cataclysm is not Jagged Alliance 2 or something. So here yours huge damge in the face for single positional mistake with 200% weapon damage modifer.

So putting ranged enemies with huge damage leads to tricky situation like this.

Option are

  1. Make system more fluid and giving player more options.
  2. Avoid huge ranged damage versus player that can surely kill him and/or give player chance to survive it or avoid that.

Preferably both.

Interestingly game already has some balance tweaks to do 2). Chicken bot with powerful weapon has laser sight targeting.