Stealth mode!

Valpo · 2015-10-23T23:53:26.000Z

On winterdays i can hear people walking outside my house when I sit near a window and enough snow has fallen.

I may have acute hearing or steping on snow is loud.

Litppunk · 2015-10-23T23:59:26.000Z

hmm ok. Good to know.

Valpo · 2015-10-24T00:03:36.000Z

deep snow stepping sound effects ftw ^^

evilexecutive · 2015-10-24T00:49:23.000Z

[quote=“Valpo, post:23, topic:10711”]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbrZF4A19Us

deep snow stepping sound effects ftw ^^[/quote]

AAGH FUCK, WHY IS THIS SO PAINFUL TO HEAR. Like, actual, physical pain in my head! Nope, I would pretty much uninstall this mod instantly if I hear that noise in the game. Shit, I don’t know what’s up with this, but it reminds me of the sound of teeth scraping on ice.

Valpo · 2015-10-24T00:53:25.000Z

Well i dunno. It basicly is ice grinding against ice. I am used to this sound. I have heard it a lot.

Is it realy that bad? The only thing i feel or think about when i hear this is fresh winter air, warm tee and building snowmen.

Midaychi · 2015-10-24T00:54:58.000Z

^ that would be the same problem that digital recording has with things like rain or wind. Recordings of these sorts of things are two dimensional and have a have a hard time being distinguished by the software and the mic hardware itself from static electronic noise.

Thus, if you’re good at judging ambient directions from sound irl and have problems with being assaulted by tv static, most attempts to digitally represent these sounds will just end up in misery.

If you’re not, though, then you’re likely very confused when someone complains about this. “It’s not that bad, is it?”

It is.

Valpo · 2015-10-24T01:08:37.000Z

I do not understand how rain or wind compares to steping into snow.

evilexecutive · 2015-10-24T01:38:39.000Z

[quote=“Valpo, post:25, topic:10711”]Well i dunno. It basicly is ice grinding against ice. I am used to this sound. I have heard it a lot.

Is it realy that bad? The only thing i feel or think about when i hear this is fresh winter air, warm tee and building snowmen.[/quote]

It really is that bad. This recording is like grainy static with the consistency of a showering of tiny needles scratching at my ears.

Nikolai_Don_Bonavitc · 2015-10-24T01:44:55.000Z

Litppunk:

[quote=“Arek_PL, post:17, topic:10711”]winter is comming, maybe i will check again how loud snow is

get scientific with this! measure decibels at distance and in hand. Can’t wait to hear the results. May help my irl sneaking too! :D[/quote]

Your’e going to quantify the “stealth bonus” from walking on snow? Cool. Keep a control in mind. Tile floors, metal sheeting, etc.
You should also add a second variable set, in material. Bare skin, running shoe, moccasin, etc.

Please post the results, as I could use some science on this matter.

Litppunk · 2015-10-25T03:09:08.000Z

hmm good point what would the output formula be? Something like, foot material noise value X surface material noise value / distance?
(F * S / D) or maybe… (F S / 2D)? something like that?

Dampe · 2015-10-25T03:38:55.000Z

Maybe concealment (since that’s probably a better word than cover for a stealth mode) could be split into five categories.

No Concealment
You’re just standing out in the open for the whole (undead) world to see.

Low Concealment
Concealment that is below knee-high. Think of this as lying down against the curb of the sidewalk or something like that. Might keep you hidden if somebody’s not very observant, but it’s hardly ideal.

Medium Concealment
Concealment that is about waist-high, like a table, bed, counter or desk.

High Concealment
Concealment that is chest-high, like a dresser.

Full Concealment
Concealment that is above neck-high.

kevin.granade · 2015-10-26T02:24:50.000Z

Kevin Granade:

Displaying your current stealth level doesn’t help much, what you really need is something that lets you know how concealed nearby squares are so you can plan your movements. I don’t know a good way to do that offhand, except maybe changing your vision mode a bit when you’re sneaking and drawing an overlay of some kind on the map. Even then computing that gets quite expensive, so that might be a tricky thing to do as well. I think it’s doable, but it’s going to take some work.

Litppunk · 2015-10-26T22:00:04.000Z

^.^ sounds good, although the sneak value of a place would be largely dependent on where what you are hiding is compared to your current location and cover. Perhaps on the Gui side it would be better to just make it part of the (e)xamine info…or at least incorporate that in, rather than graphing your surroundings and doing an overlay.

Zireael · 2015-10-27T07:30:12.000Z

Yeah, part of (e)xamine info with the same color coding as suggested above would be the way to go imho.

Nikolai_Don_Bonavitc · 2015-11-08T23:25:19.000Z

Or having it show up when you press (x) might be smarter. using (e)xamine only looks at tiles that are next to you.

That said, if this is implemented we seriously need a related skill.
Low skill, you would move at a crawling pace. High skill, you would move at the normal walking pace.
Low skill, you have a small decrease to noise. High skill, you move near silently.

Considering that Kevin Granade replied to this thread, it could be suggested to the other mods/developers.
Of course, if this is implemented, we would also need sneak attacks.

TaigaR · 2015-11-13T12:43:41.000Z

How about hiding behind different objects? The more movement cost in stealth mode - the easier to hide on the other side of the object. And there should be, say, question marks ? if smth get interested in you an ! if it sees you and approaching angrily.

Nikolai_Don_Bonavitc · 2015-11-20T21:43:58.000Z

TaigaR:

How about hiding behind different objects? The more movement cost in stealth mode - the easier to hide on the other side of the object. And there should be, say, question marks ? if smth get interested in you an ! if it sees you and approaching angrily.

A (!) already appears if you use (V). It tells whether the entity can see you.

That said, making cover based on the move cost, is a lot cheaper on computing power I think.
When Kevin G comes back to this thread, we can ask him.

kevin.granade · 2015-11-21T05:54:33.000Z

There’s no real difference between basing “cover value” on move cost or something else, the expensive thing about it is that cover “casts a shadow” where enemies find it harder to see you, and those shadows are expensive to calculate.

That aside, the only thing really holding this kind of thing up is someone being interested in working on it.

ZoneWizard · 2015-11-25T20:49:29.000Z

There is a system already in place than makes stealth reasonbly well done isn’t there? Lighting +Line of sight + stealth skill=/=dex / compared to the critters ability to see/hear = Hidden or not Hidden.

But maybe this is a dead topic because I’ve been seeing hiding in shadows already sorta working well in the latest builds… >_>

kevin.granade · 2015-11-26T04:53:07.000Z

Hrm, I’ll have to double-check, but standing in shadows may well hide you from monsters, the dynamic lighting works for both the player and monsters after all.