Static spawns vs. Wanders vs Both

[Vastin]

So, I’ve been playing with both static and wandering spawns on for the last couple games, and it seems to work ok, but I’ve heard people say that the two systems interact oddly.

Could someone with a better understanding of how they both operate elaborate on that?

[X-PLODE]

I get tired of repeating myself or seeing new threads being opened.

[PlatointheCave]

I get tired of repeating myself or seeing new threads being opened.

I actually have been trying to find a clear technical explanation for the mechanics of wander spawns and how they interact with static spawns. So I went through your entire post history to find it. I didn’t. Just a load of mean comments.

Aaaaanyway, I play with wander and static spawns on and I’ve done some more reading.

This post: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=13537.msg286652#msg286652 had an annotated section of the code for wander and static spawns. Each function does an individual thing that then interacts and I’m gonna try and unpack each:

Static TRUE: A bunch of zombies get spawned at the start. This spawning is independent of wander but will later interact (I’ll get into that).

Wander TRUE: Wandering spawn points (appearing as Zs on the overmap) move around the map and towards noise they can hear. These spawn points have a pool of zeds that can be depleted, clearing the wandering spawn point. When one of the Zs hits an area the player is in, the zeds in the pool start spawning. These spawn points are independent of static spawnings.

Interaction: Each function spawns zombies independently so you usually get cities having a lot more zeds in them to begin with than if you just have static on. Further, and this I couldn’t find explicit codey evidence for and is instead based on my experience, the statically spawned zombies seem to become wandering Zs once encountered. I’m guessing they form their own pool, or a preexisting pool vacuums them up. This means that very early on having both spawns set to true leads to a large number of zeds in populated places but that zeds, once encountered, will all wander about. This potentially leaves places like FEMA camps or sections of cities devoid of zeds later on.

That is my present understanding of how each function will work. The ‘odd’ interaction may be things like zombies added by static spawning to sealed buildings houdining out or zombie spawn points putting zombies in fortified bases. Kinda weird, but on the whole they work fine together.

[Vastin]

Ah, thank you very much.

I had sorted out what either mode did on its own, but I was having trouble sussing out what they did together, so that clears things up some more - particularly the concept that static zeds may join wandering hordes after they’ve been activated.

[KliPeH]

Wander TRUE: Wandering spawn points (appearing as Zs on the overmap) move around the map and towards noise they can hear. These spawn points have a pool of zeds that can be depleted, clearing the wandering spawn point. When one of the Zs hits an area the player is in, the zeds in the pool start spawning.

Are overmap Z’s spawn pools? I thought Z’s indicated the pool spawned zombies in the area so that you know it’s somewhere nearby, but otherwise was completely invisible to the player. Useful information to know.

For some reason it never occured to me it’s possible to use both systems simultaneously. It’s a true/false thing, why did I never think of that? I’ll definitely try to use this in my next run.

[Gnorse]

[quote=“PlatointheCave, post:3, topic:13168”]Wander TRUE: Wandering spawn points (appearing as Zs on the overmap) move around the map and towards noise they can hear. These spawn points have a pool of zeds that can be depleted, clearing the wandering spawn point. When one of the Zs hits an area the player is in, the zeds in the pool start spawning.

Are overmap Z’s spawn pools? I thought Z’s indicated the pool spawned zombies in the area so that you know it’s somewhere nearby, but otherwise was completely invisible to the player. Useful information to know.

For some reason it never occured to me it’s possible to use both systems simultaneously. It’s a true/false thing, why did I never think of that? I’ll definitely try to use this in my next run.[/quote]
the true and false thing is static VS dynamic

[KliPeH]

the true and false thing is static VS dynamic

What I meant to say is, there’s no “VS”. You can actually use both, going by what the thread says. I’ve never tried it myself, simply because I didn’t think it would be possible. For some inexplicable reason I thought you could only use one at a time.

[Gnorse]

[quote=“Gnorse, post:6, topic:13168”]the true and false thing is static VS dynamic

What I meant to say is, there’s no “VS”. You can actually use both, going by what the thread says. I’ve never tried it myself, simply because I didn’t think it would be possible. For some inexplicable reason I thought you could only use one at a time.[/quote]
this is static AND wander, yes, you can use them both
i’m talking about static and DYNAMIC, those you cant use both
wander=/=dynamic

[KliPeH]

[quote=“Gnorse, post:8, topic:13168”]this is static AND wander, yes, you can use them both
i’m talking about static and DYNAMIC, those you cant use both
wander=/=dynamic[/quote]

OH, I see. I got the two confused. The game never gives a name to “dynamic mode”, it’s only static mode’s false state. I’m a moron; I’ve been playing with Static and Wander spawns all along, apparently I just didn’t get the point of thread. Sorry, you can ignore me.

[Gnorse]

[quote=“KliPeH, post:9, topic:13168”][quote=“Gnorse, post:8, topic:13168”]this is static AND wander, yes, you can use them both
i’m talking about static and DYNAMIC, those you cant use both
wander=/=dynamic[/quote]

OH, I see. I got the two confused. The game never gives a name to “dynamic mode”, it’s only static mode’s false state. I’m a moron; I’ve been playing with Static and Wander spawns all along, apparently I just didn’t get the point of thread. Sorry, you can ignore me.[/quote]
its good, me, playing CDDA for well over a year, never even touched dynamic mode, i always used to play static and now i’m playing static+wander

[CK_Kirbi]

Since the subject is up and the wiki is old, I have to admit I’m curious as to what the mechanics behind modern/experimental dynamic spawning are and how they interact with the wandering hordes dynamic. I’ve been running dynamic+wander from my very first world, but I’ve not yet taken the time to come to grips with how they actually function.

Could you enlighten me?

[Gnorse]

[quote=“CK_Kirbi, post:11, topic:13168”]Since the subject is up and the wiki is old, I have to admit I’m curious as to what the mechanics behind modern/experimental dynamic spawning are and how they interact with the wandering hordes dynamic. I’ve been running dynamic+wander from my very first world, but I’ve not yet taken the time to come to grips with how they actually function.

Could you enlighten me?[/quote]
i dunno how they interact, but dynamic makes zombies outta thin air when you make noise

[Kadian]

As Gnorse is saying, Dynamic will simply spawn zombies from an unlimited pool. Said Zombies will always spawn when your character is making noise, for example by shooting, throwing, bashing and so on. The Zombies it spawns are, from my experience, random, with more common zombies being more likely to spawn. It probably uses that evolution factor as well, with spawning more advanced zombies when your game goes on for longer.
This zombie spawning will always happen somewhere around you, probably in a 3x3 or 5x5 maptile radius. The spawned Zombies will then move to the Noise.

Basically, it’s an unlimited Wander Spawn that follows the player, which reacts to Noise. And it’s there, all the the time.
With that said, one assumption is that a wander-spawnpool can vacuum up spawned zombies, or spawned zombies can create a new wander-spawn, if there are enough. If that is true, dynamic would thwart the players attempts of ‘destroying’ a wander-spawn, because it would spawn new zombies due to the fighting noise. Or it could create a whole new wander-spawn every time the player shoots around with their gun or crash into something.

I guess that explains at least partially why people dislike dynamic spawns.

[CK_Kirbi]

Damn. That’s pretty intense and explains why the hordes at the start of my game are so fat and full of rugged awesome zombies that make town scrounging a genuine nightmare. I guess my concern then is that given how easy it is to kill any given single zombie, or small groups when smart/battle hardened, is that you’ll eventually wipe out all of the zombies in a given area and have to roam if you’re looking for a fight.

On one hand, being able to clear out a town is an accomplishment. On the other, cleansing the region of your primary source of adversity in this game seems… I’m not sure… anti-climatic?

Well I’m hitting up PK’s mod soon. Perhaps I’ll take the time to try static+wander in his world of DEMONS. >=(

[Kadian]

I’ll wish you the best of luck with PK. Just don’t forget: Pretty much everything is deadlier in this mod. So be prepared, and be careful. you don’t want to die due to overconfidence.

On one hand, being able to clear out a town is an accomplishment. On the other, cleansing the region of your primary source of adversity in this game seems.. I'm not sure.. anti-climatic?

People clear out towns in order to have a safe haven from where they can stage their scavenging. It’s not necessarily anti-climactic, after all, they still have to scavenger every once in a while. And hell, if NPCS ever get a makeover, then you could use a freed town as a base for your group. With some npcs being farmers, guards and so on.

I personally use Static + Wander Spawns, with a Spawnrate of 2.0 and big cities, which are decently far apart. Oh, and I also use PK’s mod. This can get pretty hairy in bigger cities, that’s probably why I never try to clean a town - My playstyle revolves around staying mobile, usually with a car of some description and building it out to a mobile fortress of Solitude for my character.

[CK_Kirbi]

[quote=“Kadian, post:15, topic:13168”]I’ll wish you the best of luck with PK. Just don’t forget: Pretty much everything is deadlier in this mod. So be prepared, and be careful. you don’t want to die due to overconfidence.

…

People clear out towns in order to have a safe haven from where they can stage their scavenging. It’s not necessarily anti-climactic, after all, they still have to scavenger every once in a while. And hell, if NPCS ever get a makeover, then you could use a freed town as a base for your group. With some npcs being farmers, guards and so on.[/quote]

I’ve been working up towards it for a little while. As it stands, I am waiting to play as I am in the process of throwing a hand made mutation branch into the mix of stuff around and I want to get it right, up to and including using tileset stuff with it. Once that is smoothed out to my liking, I’m off to the races.

I do like the logic for town clearly, and with PK’s mod containing unique structures with spawn points and spawn monsters/leaders unto themselves, I think that I will give that a try. And yeah, I’m one of those weird assholes who likes the NPCs as they currently exist, so when their roles and abilities expand to allow for real faction play, I will have to consider your method.

Though, to be honest, I’d probably be crazy enough to try to find a lone structure… an LMOE near a river for example, and build that community up from the ground up.

[PlatointheCave]

[quote=“CK_Kirbi, post:16, topic:13168”]…

Though, to be honest, I’d probably be crazy enough to try to find a lone structure… an LMOE near a river for example, and build that community up from the ground up.[/quote]

I’ve done this with a lab. NPCs are pretty much mandatory for this because they can cut structure build time (like stone walls taking 2 hours instead of 6). I also like saving all the NPCs.

Anywho, I did some testing with wander + dynamic spawns and what Kadian is saying seems to happen; zombies spawned dynamically become and join wandering spawns.

[deoxy]

Anywho, I did some testing with wander + dynamic spawns and what Kadian is saying seems to happen; zombies spawned dynamically become and join wandering spawns.

I would love that… if only the dynamic spawn wasn’t in direct relation to any noise.

Sure, keep spawning zombies! It’s just silly that they ALL show up only WHERE I AM.