Solar Panels

[whiran]

I’ve been reading a fair number of comments and thoughts about solar panels in different sub-forums so I figured I would find that subject here. I didn’t see it at first glance so here it is: solar power.

From the discussion I’ve read there are a couple of people who are very adamant about solar panels being too powerful (their persuasiveness then prompted a massive nerf to solar panels) and people are now talking about the results of that change.

I think there is a very easy solution that will A) keep the value of solar panels from a gameplay point of view and B) keep the solar power is too easy crowd satisfied:

Introduce levels of solar power technology.

Start with a basic solar panel that is how it currently is (at the nerfed level.)

Then, depending on how the coders want to do it introduce an intermediate stage and then an advanced stage.

Intermediate could be twice as powerful as the nerfed level.

Advanced would be how solar panels were before the nerf.

Intermediate solar tech would be relatively uncommon to find.

Advanced solar tech would be extremely rare / difficult to find. Place it behind the final levels of portals and the like.

That gives people who want to use solar tech a progression tree to follow plus it gives greater use to higher skill levels.

If having three levels of solar tech is too much reduce to two levels by skipping out on the intermediate level.

[Iosyn]

Well said and welcome, whiran. Nice first post too.

Not sure about having three versions myself, but an Advanced version with higher power gen would certainly be welcome, to me at least. 3 versions means 6 different types once reinforced.

Here’s my view.

[ol][li] Previous solar panels were OP as hell, my car and storage batteries were always at 100% even if I repaired, removed and then rebuilt everything from scratch. Or close enough as didn’t matter anyway.[/li]
[li] Currently, they do feel realistic-- but they’re also weak enough that they only work well as a secondary power source. Four of them is about enough to offset the drain of a minifridge.[/li][/ol]

I don’t usually use electric vehicles, but I assume this current charge rate means hell for those that do. Maybe we should implement hydrogen and electric car charging stations at gas stations. Or maybe have them as an entirely new building.

[EkarusRyndren]

They’re fine as is. Solar power is not a cure-all and it’s only 12% efficient in best case scenarios. New England, a region of the US that’s mostly rainy, is not a best case scenario.

[move][center][size=18pt]“BUT IT’S THE FUTURE!”[/size][/center][/move]

Is the usual battle cry of the “I want to power my car with a single panel come rain or shine” crowd. It’s 15 years in the future, not a hundred. Solar power isn’t going to surpass gasoline anytime soon. Especially with the scientists in cataclysm focusing on portal technology, the goo, and bionics.

The only thing the solar vehicles need are more panels. “But Ekarus, wouldn’t buffing panels be the same thing?” No. Buffing panels would mean arbitrarily making them stronger, whereas adding more means more surface area sucking up the one day of sunlight out of the year. “But Ekarus! How am I going to run my home?” Try gasoline, or more solar panels.

TLDR; Solar panels are fine as is. Use more of them, google solar powered cars, they aren’t a matter of slapping a 4 foot by 4 foot paint of solar cells on the roof.

[HunterAlpha1]

fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

[EkarusRyndren]

fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

Right because a corrupt government which even now receives large amounts of “campaign funds” from “big oil” is going to be eager to encourage the development of magic solar panels.

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:5099”]fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

Right because a corrupt government which even now receives large amounts of “campaign funds” from “big oil” is going to be eager to encourage the development of magic solar panels.[/quote]i mean despite the corrupt govcorp.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:5, topic:5099”][quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:5099”]fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

Right because a corrupt government which even now receives large amounts of “campaign funds” from “big oil” is going to be eager to encourage the development of magic solar panels.[/quote]i mean despite the corrupt govcorp.[/quote]

Are you aware the government in Cataclysm is even worse than the real one right?

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:6, topic:5099”][quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:5, topic:5099”][quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:5099”]fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

Right because a corrupt government which even now receives large amounts of “campaign funds” from “big oil” is going to be eager to encourage the development of magic solar panels.[/quote]i mean despite the corrupt govcorp.[/quote]

Are you aware the government in Cataclysm is even worse than the real one right?[/quote]yeah but CBM: Solar Panels.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:7, topic:5099”][quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:6, topic:5099”][quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:5, topic:5099”][quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:5099”]fyi, CDDA is actually set at least 40 years into the future. there would’ve been considerable progress on solar energy by then.

Right because a corrupt government which even now receives large amounts of “campaign funds” from “big oil” is going to be eager to encourage the development of magic solar panels.[/quote]i mean despite the corrupt govcorp.[/quote]

Are you aware the government in Cataclysm is even worse than the real one right?[/quote]yeah but CBM: Solar Panels.[/quote]
So you’re comparing a car’s electrical system to a bionic system?

[whiran]

[quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:3, topic:5099”]They’re fine as is. Solar power is not a cure-all and it’s only 12% efficient in best case scenarios. New England, a region of the US that’s mostly rainy, is not a best case scenario.
…

TLDR; Solar panels are fine as is. Use more of them, google solar powered cars, they aren’t a matter of slapping a 4 foot by 4 foot paint of solar cells on the roof.[/quote]
Trying to argue a real life comparison in a game that has zombies, bionics, mutations that can lead to things like wings, portals to different dimensions, fusion weapons, etc. is not going to go very far. In that it is an invalid argument.

At the end of the day the question is one of playability and risk vs reward.

Solar panels make life easier for the gamer. One doesn’t need to constantly find fuel so it is a convenience. For some people, it makes their game experience a better one. I don’t know why you’d begrudge that.

You feel that the old solar panels made the game too easy. That’s valid and a fair assessment in my mind. It was really easy to set up a base with solar tech and not have to worry about it. The issue was that the reward (continual energy source) was way beyond the risk (no risk - gather up solar panels from any solar vehicle). That’s a questionable mechanic.

So, to fix that up, introduce risk or reduce the reward to the equation to balance out the end result. The reward was reduced significantly. Why not also add risk and give solar technology a path to grow with?

As an aside, if you are going to argue the real life thing (and this is part of why it gets silly) current solar technology works when it is cloudy. Even when it is raining. Solar panels just don’t operate as efficiently under these conditions (when it is cloudy the typical efficiency of a solar panel is reduced by 50%) which is very different than no energy at all.

The no energy under cloudy skies is an “okay” trade-off for the benefit of a solar panel but it isn’t enough in my mind.

But, if you are going to go all real life arguments and the real world science behind solar technology then I hope you ad advocating that solar panels work in cloudy conditions. And rainy conditions. I’m not sure how they would work under acid rain. I mean they might be more efficient or worse… I suppose one could argue either way. But, these arguments just skirt around the real issue which one of gameplay, risk, and reward.

[kevin.granade]

I really wish I hadn’t missed this thread, because I think adding new explicitly supersciency panels is a great solution to this problem, the regular solar cars one runs across can have panels that work like a modern panel, which they roughly do, but special areas like labs or military bases can spawn special super advanced ones that are significantly better.
Also if you specifically want the setting to be current day you can just exclude the superscience items and you’re good to go.

[i2amroy]

Just a small thing, but solar panels will actually never surpass gasoline in terms of energy per time generation (unless you were like pointing huge lasers at them, at which point you are probably better of just powering your car directly). The advantage of solar panels lies in the fact that the sun is pretty much everywhere to allow for easy recharging as you go and that they are a one time investment (and you get very small efficiency drops with electricity), not that they have exceptionally high amounts of energy generation potential.

That said I’m all for super science ones, but I’d still probably only make them maybe 2.5x as good as the current ones (as in 1/4th the old ones). That would provide a nice buff when you found them but still not have solar energy pouring out of your ears once you get one.

[keldoclock]

one time investment

IRL or in the game? IRL solar panels wear out annually and need all kinds of maintenance.

[system]

In game they just spit out power without any real maintenance.

[i2amroy]

IRL or in the game? IRL solar panels wear out annually and need all kinds of maintenance.

IRL other then a small amount of maintenance costs (which are fairly low if you have good solar panels) they don’t cost anything. For smaller ones such as the kind you mount on a house/car, there isn’t any real maintenance costs at all other then the occasional wipe-down (assuming you aren’t driving or living in an area frequented by dust/sand storms that is).

[Nopkar]

In all fairness the nerf was due.

With solar panels as they were there was no reason to have any other kind of power. With the nerf they’re serviceable but difficult to work with in the long run.

I +1 the idea for more advanced solar panels. Maybe not craftable but something we can loot like fusion weapons or power armor. i2 dropped a number, 2.5x I think? sounds perfect.

[Crador]

“Especially with the scientists in cataclysm focusing on portal technology, the goo, and bionics.”

• i always knew, that concentration on goo would lead to cataclysms =P

On the side note, i fully support OP solar panels nerf. Thought myself tend to live in forests, i’d prefer some other source of power.

You know, there is only gazoline and solar. For gasoline i need to scavenge gas stations, no matter playstyle, and solar now looks more “real” and balanced, but can’t really sustain “self-sufficient” home for a forest guy. Yes, i know steam was mentioned 100500 times on forums, so i am not going to start another one. Just waiting for it, or for ability to add it through JSON mods.

Main point of surviving - is ability to renew sources your live from. Gas is not the one, nor solar panels, actually. I want to survive more then 3-5 years Maybe even finding some female NPC to start humanity over.

[Soyweiser]

Well in 20 years gasoline will be a bit more expensive. (PEAK OIL! ).

We are also missing the natural gas powering system. (Probably not that huge in the usa, but in europe it is common).

I do second the whole tiered solars thing. Might work on implementing just that.

Then I would probably:
Reduce the solar output of the panels back to 111 (was increased to 167). Add a craftable tier 2, with power (222). And a craftable reinforced tier 2 (probably lower power (as reinforced -> less surface area)). And a non craftable tier 3. Which you can only find in lab endings or something.

[Ironstone]

While I agree that you shouldn’t be able to strap two solar panels on your homemade deathstar and drive it around never running out of power, I’m not really interested in playing Cataclysm: The search for fuel. There’s a line between “realism”, game mechanics and playablity.

We are talking about a game with the walking dead, fusion rifles and man portable teleportation devices. The laser turrets running off sunlight are aren’t realistic. Considering that they don’t seem to use a battery, I’d love to have their solar panels for my death wagon.

I think the issue is not so much how realistic solar panels are in the game but how they affect gameplay.

How about we add wood gas to the game? It’s a real technology that was used to power vehicles during world war II. It works with internal combustion engines that can still run on gasoline. Adding the ability to toggle between the engines/fuel used when driving would in my opinion make it an excellent compromise. We could then use the internal combustion engine to charge batteries for “silent running”.

[Soyweiser]

Personally I’d rather add more threats than more stuff. But like the solars tiered idea.