Opinions in trying to add Gun- fu?

[DemAvalon]

john wick?

No John Woo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Woo

you know how Max Payne dives around in slow motion firing pistols while at it? he does that because of Woo’s films.

[Litppunk]

Oh. He was referring to a director. Not a characte. Got it.

[Mantar]

John Woo is great. If you like action movies and have never seen Hard Boiled, go watch it. (The Killer is arguably even better, but Hard Boiled is my favorite.)

[ZoneWizard]

Yeah my idea was a working one when I was reminded of John Wick. Basically run over and sucker punch the dude with the front of the pistol in a downward motion. Turn the gun upward and get a head shot pointing up. Requires close quarter to work. But it truly has other ways of doing this for real and if indeed you are fast irl. It is possible.

The head shot maybe a little iffy. But I did say “aim buff”. So it remains as a normal possible head shot, instead of a guarantee. More likely to “just hit” and take a normal hit.

In any event. Nice collaborative in this thread. Truly hope this can be added to the game. Kevin? Cool? PK?

[Litppunk]

Nah, theres no infighting. We are discussing the game without arguing about it. The Devs that be do not feel a disturbance in the thread.

[kevin.granade]

This was a good post made in the current aim balance PR: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/21468#issuecomment-327104441

tl;dr (especially since it’s youtube videos): A pragmatic way of merging close quarters and firearms is simpy to keep your target at a good distance with your off hand and empty your magazine into them, you don’t have to worry about missing, just getting your gun knocked away.

In practice, this would be something like a melee attack to grab your target with your off-hand, and then very fast (no aiming of course) actions to fire your weapon.

[Litppunk]

Hmm. something like that becoming mainlined may mean mobs having grapple counter type stuff more commonly, or something that acknoledges increased danger to the grappling arm. and similar part specific risks. Would stack nicely with a more detailed damage system.

Man. I could have sworn there was some sort of training on a more practical version of gun-fu. Krav Maga? Think there was a US military version too though, but I can’t seem to find anything on it.

[Logistic_Tangent]

The only stuff I personally remember are like the El Presidente drill and the Mozambique drill but those are long-range Maneuvers not hand-to-hand.

As far as martial arts go that might lend himself to this type of Gunplay maybe Wing Chun? as far as the movie Ip man goes it looks like it would work for the sort of thing we are describing.

Description iirc of the two maneuvers I mentioned.

Mozambique drill is usually refer to as two in the chest one in the head it’s a standard military shooting practice (I think).

El Presidente is mostly done shooting competitions for what I’ve seen but I imagine Secret Service does it (as training hopefully not irl). it is where you stand facing away from your targets with your hands raised turn draw and engage the two Targets without shooting one in the middle it’s a trick shooting thing.

[kevin.granade]

I was actually thinking about Mozambique recently, as a technique you could unlock at high pistol skill.
How I imagine it playing out in game:
You trigger either “double-tap” or “triple-tap” (I think Mozambique is a bit obscure even for dda players…) when aiming at a target, you fire two or three shots in quick succession as a single action, with the second and third shot only suffering a fraction of the usual recoil penalty. After the action though, it applies significantly more recoil than it would have for three ordinary back-to-back shots.
Basically if you really need a tiny burst of fire at a single target, it’s great, but it leaves you at a severe disadvantage if the last shot doesn’t finish off your target, since you have way more recoil than usual to recover from.

[Litppunk]

I like it, though don’t OVER penalize it too much just enough to keep it viable for holding your ground tactics. You are talking about a skill unlock after all. Players should be excited they have a new ability to help them.

Would also help make pistol maneuverability more readily noticeable in game-play and lore without having to tweak and nerf other stuff so everything can have its proper niche.

[kevin.granade]

I like it, though don’t OVER penalize it too much just enough to keep it viable for holding your ground tactics.

The whole point is for it to be an alternative to be used judiciously in the right circumstances, so if you just switch from regular firing to double- or triple-tap it’s going to go poorly. If you need to keep firing continuously, you should keep using the regular attacks. Keep in mind, if you switch targets your aim level resets fully anyway, so as long as you finish off an enemy with a double- or triple-tap, you don’t suffer any additional penalties.

Would also help make pistol maneuverability more readily noticeable in game-play and lore without having to tweak and nerf other stuff so everything can have its proper niche.

Eh, I’m already doing pretty careful tuning

[Litppunk]

[quote=“Litppunk, post:30, topic:14145”]I like it, though don’t OVER penalize it too much just enough to keep it viable for holding your ground tactics.

The whole point is for it to be an alternative to be used judiciously in the right circumstances, so if you just switch from regular firing to double- or triple-tap it’s going to go poorly. If you need to keep firing continuously, you should keep using the regular attacks. Keep in mind, if you switch targets your aim level resets fully anyway, so as long as you finish off an enemy with a double- or triple-tap, you don’t suffer any additional penalties.[/quote]
WOOPS mind skipped past the sentence I was currently writting. I Meant to say:

I like it, though don’t OVER penalize it too much, just enough to keep from being viable for holding your ground tactics.

[quote="Litppunk, post:30, topic:14145"]Would also help make pistol maneuverability more readily noticeable in game-play and lore without having to tweak and nerf other stuff so everything can have its proper niche.[/quote] Eh, I'm already doing pretty careful tuning :D

Well ok granted I had no grounds to accuse you otherwise. Not like I play enough these day to even be capable of complaint anyways.

[kevin.granade]

I didn’t take it as a criticism, it’s just that I’m doing the work you’re suggesting I avoid already.

[Logistic_Tangent]

Here’s another iirc. (Also some personal refrence)

The last time I was in a shooting competition (I am just a rank amateur) we had to do a woods run. In which you had to move through a wooded area engaging some standard targets with a “double tap”. I was using a .22 pistol for the competition that had a scope on it the size of the barrel so it had a negligible amount of recoil. After the course we could review our targets and help reset for the next shooter.

Bringing me to my point. I am a fairly decent shot but on average the spread of my two rounds was 5 in. That was just double tapping, but all of my shots were about where i had aimed. The Mozambique drill puts two rounds in the center of mass and one round in the “head / neck” area to ensure that the target stays down.

The way I could see this playing nicely would be in a progression sort of like this:

Double tap / triple tap / Mozambique / other advanced drills.and maneuvers by “difficulty”

It would allow a character to have a measurable progression of skills and be “realistic” as putting two rounds in rapid succession into a target is easier than three is easier than two and a headshot.