Mutation category expansion

Natures_Witness · 2014-01-16T15:55:46.000Z

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Deep One to split off cephalopod instead of fish? I thought the minions of Cthulhu leaned more in the octopus direction. For fish, might be cooler to go more towards Zora or merfolk post-threshold.
Actually, thinking about races in Zelda, would a line of silicon-based mutations be feasible, like Gorons or Trolls? Or would total cellular base alteration be too out there?

Inquisitor_Dust · 2014-01-16T16:19:36.000Z

[quote=“Natures Witness, post:101, topic:3755”]Wouldn’t it make more sense for Deep One to split off cephalopod instead of fish? I thought the minions of Cthulhu leaned more in the octopus direction. For fish, might be cooler to go more towards Zora or merfolk post-threshold.
Actually, thinking about races in Zelda, would a line of silicon-based mutations be feasible, like Gorons or Trolls? Or would total cellular base alteration be too out there?[/quote]
If I remember right, the Deep Ones were actually connected to Dagon and were rather fishy. And an image…

Anyways, I’m loving all these changes to mutations KA101. I’m going to have to make another mutant character soon.

Natures_Witness · 2014-01-16T21:03:04.000Z

Oops, my bad, I think you’re right. I guess I was thinking of Shoggoths and stuff. My Chthulu knowledge is kinda limited.

KA101 · 2014-01-16T23:32:06.000Z

Total cellular alteration is unlikely. You’re more likely to get Dwarfs from Troglobite. (Which might explain the whole “Alcohol Metabolism” thing I included in that last omnipack.)

(Yeah, I’m buffing that one out post-Threshold.)

Antenna buff is interesting. Rest can wait, I think. Thanks much.

Waladil · 2014-01-17T00:12:26.000Z

Save this idea until after NPCs and stuff get more fleshed out, but give Alphas a post-Threshold socialization mutation that modifies morale based on how many friendly creatures are around.

Zero friendly creatures: Morale drops (indefinitely!)
One friendly creature: Morale descends towards 0
Two friendly creatures: Morale ascends towards 0
Three or more friendly creatures: Morale ascends towards <10 times the number of friendlies around>

Here’s some pseudocode for it:

every_thirty_minutes(socialMorale)
{
    numFriendlies = countVisibleFriendlyCreatures()
    if(numFriendlies <= 0)
        socialMorale--
    if(numFriendlies == 1)
    {
        if(socialMorale > 0)
            socialMorale--
    }
    if(numFriendlies == 2)
    {
        if(socialMorale < 0)
            socialMorale++
    }
    if(numFrendlies >= 3)
        if(socialMorale < numFriendlies *10)
            socialMorale++
}

Hopefully all this makes sense to people reading it. Obviously function names and etc would have to be changed to match the rest of the game's real code.

Basically there’s a 2-friendly critical mass you’d always want around. Any less and you’d either lose your hard-earned morale buffs or even start getting some harsh penalties (spend too long alone and you’ll go insane!). But if you can get a lot of people together even for a while and gather some morale buffs, just keep your core followers and you can ride that bonus.

RadaRadaRada · 2014-01-17T01:15:04.000Z

I had this idea to modify the strong/smart/dexterous/perceptive mutation lines and add their stat penality counterpart mutations:

Mutations which grant stat bonuses to player, also make one go hungrier/thirstier faster. As bodily systems responsible for these qualities gets better and better, so does their complexity and upkeep.
And mutations which bestow stat penalities to player, instead decrease these systems complexity, lessening the food/water intake needed.

KA101 · 2014-01-17T02:08:07.000Z

[quote=“RadaRadaRada, post:106, topic:3755”]I had this idea to modify the strong/smart/dexterous/perceptive mutation lines and add their stat penality counterpart mutations:

Mutations which grant stat bonuses to player, also make one go hungrier/thirstier faster. As bodily systems responsible for these qualities gets better and better, so does their complexity and upkeep.
And mutations which bestow stat penalities to player, instead decrease these systems complexity, lessening the food/water intake needed.[/quote]

Egad!

I’m awful stingy with stat penalties because stats are so tough to affect. Linking things like that also defeats the point of Robust Genetics: stat bonuses should remain bonuses. Mutations that aren’t stat bonuses may have linked effects, and there are two that penalize a stat, but you’ve really got to want that category to get them.

Datanazush · 2014-01-17T04:19:17.000Z

[quote=“KA101, post:107, topic:3755”]Egad!

I’m awful stingy with stat penalties because stats are so tough to affect. Linking things like that also defeats the point of Robust Genetics: stat bonuses should remain bonuses. Mutations that aren’t stat bonuses may have linked effects, and there are two that penalize a stat, but you’ve really got to want that category to get them.[/quote]

While I certainly agree with you that stat boosts should avoid having penalties, maybe there should be more extreme stat boosts that ARE linked to a penalty, say for example…

RAVENOUS STRENGTH - Prereqs: Fast Metabolism, Extreme Strength.
Your hunger triggers a natural surge of strength! (+4 strength while very hungry or worse.)

Logrin · 2014-01-17T04:44:44.000Z

I like the idea of undesirable in category mutations being linked to desirable post-threshold mutations. As per ectothermic.

How about this one for Chimera?

Chimera : Fight or Flight.

Pre-req : Extreme Metabolism, High-Adrenaline

Description : You’ve become hardwired for self-preservation by a simple and insatiable need to subdue your constant hunger. Bestial tenacity slumbers at the edge of your awareness, poised to flood your body in times of need.

Effect : When starving to death you gain a strength boost. When heavily wounded you gain a brief but sizable movement speed boost. In essence you can kill better when hungry and flee better when close to death.

Also, Alpha.

Alpha : Übermensch

Pre reqs : I’m not entirely sure here, maybe a collect em’ all of the prime stat mutations?

Description : You are the Ideal. The Goal. The Over-human. Where lessers would see a cataclysm you have found the crucible with which to temper your superiority and shed the failings of your ‘peers’ like so much slag. You will tolerate nothing less of yourself.

Effect : When a skill goes up in level your morale sky-rockets. When a skill drops a level it plummets ((Though to a lesser extent.)) In essence it’s a self-improvement addiction that becomes harder to sustain the more you perfect yourself.

EDIT*

Yet another suggested post-threshold

Arachnid : Urticating hair

Pre-reqs : Chitinous Plate

Description : A fine phalanx of barbed setae rise from fragile bases along your stiff, arachnidian, exterior. Even the slightest provoking touch is sure to slough a choking cloud of lancet-like hair into your vicinity.

Effect : You release a sizable cloud of urticating hair when taking damage from any source. ((Some monster-type spiders should get this too.)) It severely hampers vision and breathing of anything that need breath or see, and is generally painful for creatures without this particular adaptation.

******ANOTHER EDIT

Lizard : Vomeronasal Organ

Pre-req : Forked Tongue

Description : Your forked tongue has evolved into an extremely sensile olfactory probe, its ever flicker a brush-stroke upon a mental canvas of the world around you.

Effect : Simply put the player can ‘see’ the various odors floating around cata. I’m somewhat on the fence as to if this should be A) access to the scent-map B) Detection of invisible or otherwise hidden life-forms or C) All of the above.

Zireael · 2014-01-17T12:58:07.000Z

I had an idea which would be chimera/beast/wev post-tresh.

Basically, an opposite of Ectothermic - you are faster in cold or moderate temperatures. Thoughts?

Logrin · 2014-01-20T03:13:41.000Z

Two things.

Thing the First : Other peeps need to start throwing some suggestions into the mix, I know you’ve got great ideas floating around out there.

Thing the Second : There’s talk going around on the Github for an associated cost for using active mutations. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/5612

From what I gather leafing over the comments mutations drawing from your fatigue/hunger/thirst could hand in hand with the new active mutations. While I do agree they need a cost ((Half the fun of this game is about resource management)) I think that mutations like extreme thirst/hunger or even very sleepy would go from interesting flaws to crippling ‘energy’ hogs.

To that end I have a suggestion of my own, inspired by NaturesWitness and their suggested option of a cooldown. A stacking status effect simply called Strain. Certain actions cost strain, which on its own does nothing, but it does trigger nastier and nastier debuffs per each 20 point increment. Allowing players to push themselves passed the limit in a life or death situation, but pay dearly in the aftermath. I’d also suggest certain fatiguing actions like dodging and melee combat add to total strain.

For example, let’s say Doogie Howitzer is a mutant insect with a serious case of frontanellar face, and for the sake of this story he’s running from a crowd of zeds. Each time he chooses to shoot that mouth cannon of his it costs 7 strain, which gives him two free shots before the first debuff. He’d have to decide if he’d rather have that third shot or save his energy for climbing a fence or breaking a window to escape, or even if he’d rather just stand his ground and fight without it.

Here’s a mock up of what the Debuffs could look like. All of them would stack with each other and whatever other debuffs you may be suffering from pain or addiction

0-19 strain = No ill effects
20-39 strain = Heavy breathing. +1 total encumbrance across the board
40-59 strain = Lactic Build-up. A 30 percent movement speed debuff.
60-79 strain = Dizzy. A hefty penalty to all skills.
80-99 strain = Faltering. Pain for every turn spent in this state.
100+ strain = Breaking Point. Variable torso damage for every turn spent in this state. This can kill you.

The_Lone_Badger · 2014-01-20T08:41:48.000Z

[quote=“Logrin, post:111, topic:3755”]Two things.

Thing the First : Other peeps need to start throwing some suggestions into the mix, I know you’ve got great ideas floating around out there.[/quote]

OK!

Cyborg / Biosynthetic Fusion
There’s no mutagen for this category, instead it can occur if you mutate while you have a lot of CBMs. If you have enough bionics it can even override ‘flavoured’ mutagens.
Mutation ideas (some post-threshold)

Able to consume batteries to reduce hunger / consuming batteries also stimulates / addicted to batteries
As above but gasoline instead
Reduce energy cost of active bionics
Easier to install bionics and morale boost for installing a bionic
Stat-boosting bionics give larger bonuses
Water need greatly reduced
Sleep need greatly reduced
Now use Mechanics skill rather than First Aid when applying healing items
Drugs have a 50% chance of not working (also applies to poisons).
If you become very hungry and bionic power is above 0 then hunger will not increment and bionic power will reduce instead (reverse of metabolic interchange)
May spontaneously manifest a bionic you don’t already have in lieu of mutating

Zireael · 2014-01-20T10:00:10.000Z

^^ I want THIS so bad!

EkarusRyndren · 2014-01-20T10:52:32.000Z

Logrin:

-Snip-

We desperately need a good stamina system and frankly this sounds like it.

The Lone Badger:

-snip-

Bionics in CDDA aren’t nano-machine based. This doesn’t make sense from a cannon standpoint.

Inadequate · 2014-01-20T10:56:14.000Z

One thing I’ve hoped for since the start of the thread is the ability to gain friendly monsters when mutated far enough. Like a heavily mutated plant-man being able to befriend triffids, or a heavily mutated insect-man becoming the ant king. Maybe it’s a passive process, or maybe you could have requirements like feeding honeycombs to bees, or having to kill the triffid heart first to befriend triffids from that grove. I know there’s an NPC rework in the works that might ultimately be able to implement a faction system for all creatures, but for now simply being able to befriend them would be good. Alpha/Fey mutations could give you a boost to regular NPC interactions. Slime-men could occasionally spawn friendly blobs. Admittedly not sure what to do about fish/cephalopod men, those get kind of shafted minion.

Another thing I’d like would be more building options open to you. Maybe insectmen could build wax walls similar to hives, or spider-men could build solid web walls. Maybe fish/cephalopod men could build underwater fortifications, or flood cities if that ever becomes implemented. Perhaps plant-men could slowly turn cities into groves by rapidly growing vegetation. Ratmen and troglodytes might be able to create underground tunnels with ease. Birdmen could build…nests, maybe? Not sure how that would work. Not sure what to do about regular beast-men, I was thinking maybe you could use trees as shelter and sleep comfortably in them to reflect being able to survive in the wild, but that’s not as fun as the other options.

Also, maybe insect mutation should be split up into ants/bees. Beemen could get the ability to create honeycombs and eventually royal jelly from mutated poppies. Ants could get…the tunneling thing, I guess.

And while the CBMs might not be nanite-based, a robot faction with associated mutations might not be a bad idea. Although I guess it’d be more like cyborgization, rather than actual mutation. Kevin did propose a nanite faction back on page 2.

The_Lone_Badger · 2014-01-20T10:58:34.000Z

EkarusRyndren:

Bionics in CDDA aren’t nano-machine based. This doesn’t make sense from a cannon standpoint.

I figure it’s the Blob findings ways to adapt its host flesh to circumstances, and the here the stimulus is a lot of foreign material in the body that needs to be integrated with. The machinery stays the same but the flesh around it changes until it becomes hard to tell where one stops and the other begins.

EkarusRyndren · 2014-01-20T11:05:03.000Z

The Lone Badger:

[quote=“EkarusRyndren, post:114, topic:3755”]Bionics in CDDA aren’t nano-machine based. This doesn’t make sense from a cannon standpoint.

I figure it’s the Blob findings ways to adapt its host flesh to circumstances, and the here the stimulus is a lot of foreign material in the body that needs to be integrated with. The machinery stays the same but the flesh around it changes until it becomes hard to tell where one stops and the other begins.[/quote]

The goo doesn’t effect machinery, hence why you don’t see zombified robits. It might mutate to assist bionics (Hence the shocker zeds) but not create some techno-abomination. I’m afraid you’re gonna have to do that on your own.

The_Lone_Badger · 2014-01-21T05:53:45.000Z

Doomsayer: You like radiation. You really like radiation.

Does not suffer harm from radiation.
Heals faster and has morale boost when being irradiated.
Gains stat boosts based on current absorbed rads.
Hunger increases faster when not being irradiated.
Can fire blasts of radiation or self-heal, but this reduces absorbed rads.
Deterioration (only when absorbed rads is 0)
Enemies that inflict damage with natural attacks (bite, claw etc) are burned by your radioactive blood

KA101 · 2014-01-21T06:18:24.000Z

OK, so of course the Git discussion happens after I’ve said I’d be offline for family business. :-/

I’ll see what I can do. Not gonna happen tonight though. New job starts in, oh, about 7 hours and I’ve not slept much this weekend.

EkarusRyndren · 2014-01-21T11:07:55.000Z

[quote=“KA101, post:119, topic:3755”]OK, so of course the Git discussion happens after I’ve said I’d be offline for family business. :-/

I’ll see what I can do. Not gonna happen tonight though. New job starts in, oh, about 7 hours and I’ve not slept much this weekend.[/quote]

Sleep is for the weak. Coke is for winners. Winners who are gonna get everything done. Forever.