Aren’t those Chimera and Elf-A?[/quote]
Yep. You survive to breach Chaos, yeah, might have a chance long-term, but otherwise live hard, die young, and take a shitload of 'em with you; Elf-A’s eyes and glorious looks can be tempting …but that Radioactivity and Disintegration are omnipresent.
[quote=“Valpo, post:398, topic:3755”]Well he said you could purge it. So its not a deffinit delayed kill.
Only unavoidable delayed kills are gringeworthy.
Now it would depend on how commen this affliction is and how hard it is to avoid / the medcine is to get.[/quote]
Labs typically have purifier serums in them. If you’re unlucky enough to catch a nether parasite very early on, you’d have a few days to find a science ID card and some equipment to raid one. Even longer if you manage to find purifier mutagen. If that’s not enough then the more common anti-parasitic drugs could also have a weakening effect on them. This would also have the interesting effect of not removing the mutations it gives you if you forget to take your medicine regularly.
I’d like to see more mutation trees acquired in unusual ways.
I make a point to have significant mutation stuff be player-triggered, with notice that you’re doing something. Consuming mutagen is clearly mutagenic; likewise, sewage samples aren’t easy to come by and tainted tornado likewise isn’t trivial.
Thresholds take a lot of doing and generally give clear notice that you’re getting close before you breach.
Basically, no, I’m in favor of mi-gos killing one rather than impregnating one. That’s not far removed from facehugger activity, and given the recent flare-up I’m thinking folks would want to use that as an entry point. Nthx.
If it becomes a priority, how will advanced mutation branches work? Might an Arachnid line (now spider) be divided into two specializations (spider and scorpion), each with its own strengths and weaknesses?
For example, say you’ve taken a sufficient amount of Arachnid mutagen. You inject a final hit of serum into your veins and a dialogue box opens. It requires the player to select one of the provided ‘aspects’ before continuing. In this case, there would only be two. This dialogue could be done during a dream (after the player has passed out), etc. Each aspect choice (spider or scorpion) has a value assigned it. For example, scorpion would have a value of ‘2.’ Then, after this decision, future arachnid mutagens could only activate mutations with the same value (2). The only overlap would be with initial, non-post mutations, such as with ‘chitinous plates’, ‘carnivore’, etc.
Could it work something like this, or would this just be a nightmare of coding and merciless error?
[quote=“Azetepii, post:404, topic:3755”]If it becomes a priority, how will advanced mutation branches work? Might an Arachnid line (now spider) be divided into two specializations (spider and scorpion), each with its own strengths and weaknesses?
For example, say you’ve taken a sufficient amount of Arachnid mutagen. You inject a final hit of serum into your veins and a dialogue box opens. It requires the player to select one of the provided ‘aspects’ before continuing. In this case, there would only be two. This dialogue could be done during a dream (after the player has passed out), etc. Each aspect choice (spider or scorpion) has a value assigned it. For example, scorpion would have a value of ‘2.’ Then, after this decision, future arachnid mutagens could only activate mutations with the same value (2). The only overlap would be with initial, non-post mutations, such as with ‘chitinous plates’, ‘carnivore’, etc.
Could it work something like this, or would this just be a nightmare of coding and merciless error?[/quote]
Advanced branching would either be random, or targeted by a sub-mutagen, not expressly chosen from an option box. Characters don’t get that fine of control.
And yeah, that’d mean even more variables to juggle, and I’m a little annoyed about working out why the code’s currently breaking down when people play fast and loose with their metabolisms & conflicting start traits. (It’s because mutation.cpp’s being asked to do a LOT more than it was built to do, and for the most part it’s been pretty robust, but that makes me rather irritated when it does break down.)
I have an idea for a mutation system that would make use of the trait point values and made Robust Genetics less scummy.
Current system works like this: make a list of mutations we’re eligible for, pick one at random.
Instead of having this random pick being uniform, we could have a “roulette”, with each mutation getting a range with width proportional to how much we “want” this mutation.
Width of this range would depend on sum of trait points with this mutation vs some desired sum of trait points. This desired sum of trait points could be preset, world-set, affected by starting stats and by traits. Robust genetics would add a flat value to this desired sum of trait points (say, 4, because it costs 2, so 2 point gain in the end).
For example, Scum the Mutation Scummer has binged on mutagens and purifiers until he has gotten the perfect set of everything, making his trait sum 10 points higher than desired sum. Then he injected a mutagen.
His (trait - desired) is 10, so a mutation with -10 point value would have the highest weight. No such thing exists (for non-badly-mutated survivor at least), so the next mutation on the list is Flimsy (-8 points). It would only have higher weight, not be guaranteed.
Any good mutations would be unlikely.
This could even work for purifiers. That way our Scum who has gotten Herbivore (-3) from last mutagen and is now at +7 points would be the most likely to lose a 7 point mutation.
I really like the ideas of wasps or termites, especially their ability to create (extrude/spit out) bases with basic cellulose. Below are just some of the ideas of possible branches for each archetype.
Bee (Insect)
Honey Stomach (or, insectoid crop):
“You’ve developed a secondary layer to your stomach dedicated to the collection of simple sugars. At a cost of nutrition, you may regurgitate honey for later consumption or use as an antimicrobial salve.”
Bristled Exoskeleton:
“While useless in terms of attracting pollen, these fine carapacial extensions do manage to retain precious body heat.”
Hypopharynx Gland (requires Honey Stomach):
“By consuming large amounts of honey, you are able to stimulate the secretion of royal jelly (at a 5:1 ratio). Although this involves ‘eating,’ this is considered a (secret) crafting process.”
Antennae.
Insect wings.
Scorpion (Arachnid)
Chelae:
“Your arachnid arms have evolved into great chitinous pincers, capable of performing two additional cutting attacks during combat. However, you no longer receive a bonus to climbing.” (Should be fun with Mandible.)
Regenerative Molt:
“Damage to your exoskeleton is slowly repaired by means of successive molting.”
Wasteland Adaptation:
"Your specialized digestive tract reduces the loss of essential nutrients and fluids; they increment less frequently. Also, like cockroaches, you are nigh-immune to radiation.”
Burrowing.
Very Strong (as opposed to spider’s very dexterous).
Spiked tail (moved from insect).
Bat (Rodent)
Bat Ears:
“Your aural perception is unsurpassed, and you can detect moving creatures with pinpoint accuracy (x6 modifier). However, large sounds have a greater chance to deafen you.”
Echolocation (requires Bat Ears):
“By pressing ‘E,’ you release a near-ultrasonic chirp (2 sound) that reveals the surrounding environment for one turn (equivalent to a flashlight).”
Vampirism (requires Incisors):
“Whenever butchering a corpse, you gain a small amount of nutrition.”
Narrow Bones (equivalent to hollow bones).
Bat wings.
Extremely Dexterous.
Extremely Perspective.
[ Variants That Demand Less Coding…I Hope ]
Tortoise (Reptile)
Tortoise Shell:
“Your thick skin has expanded into a near-impenetrable shell, ranging over the length of your torso. It provides substantial resistance to bashing (12) and cutting (28) but reduces your dexterity by 2. You may pull your body inside the carapace for shelter and warmth when activated (a la Roomy Shell; no storage space). (Hero in a half-shell!)”
Snapping Jaw (requires Snout; identical to Reptilian Muzzle).
Hibernation (yep, they do).
Very Strong.
Very Smart (more so than rats in reality).
Extremely Ponderous.
Omnivorous (not a trait; just differs from lizard’s ‘Carnivore’).
Vulture (Bird)
Disease Resistant (stomach acid studies).
Saprovore.
Strong Stomach.
Carnivore.
Very strong.
Gourmand.
Culling.
Hyena (Feline) – Closer to cats than dogs, at least…(Gnolls!)
Hyena Muzzle (identical to lupine muzzle).
Extremely strong.
Apex predator.
Saprovore.
Strong Stomach.
Gourmand.
Light Step.
High Adrenaline.
Shouter.
[quote=“Logrin, post:304, topic:3755”]Now that we have activated mutations ((Good work on that guys!)) how about some love for bugs?
Bombardier - A potently lethal chemical cocktail of hydrogen peroxide, hydroquinone and catalytic waste churns within you, ready to be disgorged from your abdomen as a scalding hot reminder you will not abide being disturbed.
Firefly - A bioluminescent bulb bottoms out your ever more beetle-like silhouette, flush with a dim chartreuse lambency that gently sloughs off on your surroundings. Though barely bright enough to read by a cursory exploration of your new anatomy reveals you can will it off or on as you please.[/quote]
That spray could also have advantages in cleaning/cauterizing wounds.
Cross posting…
[quote=“iceball3”]Bulk suggestion:
Have high strengths reduce torso and leg encumbrance, permitting values in the negatives.
-1 at 16 strength
-2 at 28 strength
-3 at 40 strength
Probably need not go higher.
Likewise, encumber torso and legs by 1 when strength falls below 4.
Restrict chargen strength maximum to 14
Two new mutually exclusive traits, Tiny and Bulky
Tiny: Your small stature is light and easier to move around.
Bulky: Your heavy frame can potentially bear powerful muscles, but can really get in the way otherwise.
-Slight bash protection
-Torso and legs encumbered by 1 by default.
Edit: now thinking about it, too big for this thread. Crossposting to a more suitable location…[/quote]
[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:406, topic:3755”]I have an idea for a mutation system that would make use of the trait point values and made Robust Genetics less scummy.
Current system works like this: make a list of mutations we’re eligible for, pick one at random.
Instead of having this random pick being uniform, we could have a “roulette”, with each mutation getting a range with width proportional to how much we “want” this mutation.
Width of this range would depend on sum of trait points with this mutation vs some desired sum of trait points. This desired sum of trait points could be preset, world-set, affected by starting stats and by traits. Robust genetics would add a flat value to this desired sum of trait points (say, 4, because it costs 2, so 2 point gain in the end).
For example, Scum the Mutation Scummer has binged on mutagens and purifiers until he has gotten the perfect set of everything, making his trait sum 10 points higher than desired sum. Then he injected a mutagen.
His (trait - desired) is 10, so a mutation with -10 point value would have the highest weight. No such thing exists (for non-badly-mutated survivor at least), so the next mutation on the list is Flimsy (-8 points). It would only have higher weight, not be guaranteed.
Any good mutations would be unlikely.
This could even work for purifiers. That way our Scum who has gotten Herbivore (-3) from last mutagen and is now at +7 points would be the most likely to lose a 7 point mutation.[/quote]
Looks like all this does is make more maintenance work in something that’s already a pain, and nerf mutations in the bargain. Would not merge.
I have an idea for a mutation system that would make use of the trait point values and made Robust Genetics less scummy.Current system works like this: make a list of mutations we’re eligible for, pick one at random.
Instead of having this random pick being uniform, we could have a “roulette”, with each mutation getting a range with width proportional to how much we “want” this mutation.
Width of this range would depend on sum of trait points with this mutation vs some desired sum of trait points. This desired sum of trait points could be preset, world-set, affected by starting stats and by traits. Robust genetics would add a flat value to this desired sum of trait points (say, 4, because it costs 2, so 2 point gain in the end).For example, Scum the Mutation Scummer has binged on mutagens and purifiers until he has gotten the perfect set of everything, making his trait sum 10 points higher than desired sum. Then he injected a mutagen.
His (trait - desired) is 10, so a mutation with -10 point value would have the highest weight. No such thing exists (for non-badly-mutated survivor at least), so the next mutation on the list is Flimsy (-8 points). It would only have higher weight, not be guaranteed.
Any good mutations would be unlikely.This could even work for purifiers. That way our Scum who has gotten Herbivore (-3) from last mutagen and is now at +7 points would be the most likely to lose a 7 point mutation.
I would suggest that purifiers worked on recently added mutations while purifier serums worked on “established ones”. This would require that the mutations (both good and bad) were ordered by aquired moment, once you got the list purifiers should be reworked:
Purifier. Removes a max of X mutations in inverse order of acquisition. It’s important that final ammount removed to be random so players still play roullete in any case.
Purifier Serum. Removes Y ammount of mutations (as regular purifiers work now). Y could be random but at least double of X (To take into account craft costs).
This system, combined with how mutagens are applied will allow players some control on how they gradually mutate themselves, do not eliminate completely the random factor and allows for an efficient “full clean” process (Serums)…
…OFC the critical step would be IF we can get an ordered list of mutations, not a simple state defined by the links.
Alternatively, depending on how mutation state is stored, you can label mutations as “recent” and after a certain period they become “permanent”. Purifiers act on “recent” mutations first if possible, while Purifier Serums indiscriminately clean anything. This 2nd approach would match better with the Threshold concept, as reaching one, certainly qualifies as an event that should “solidify” the genotype of the player converting instantaneously all current mutations from “recent” to “permanent”.
You mean maintenance as in “player maintenance” or “code maintenance”?
Because if the former, I can agree, but not about the later. Unless you mean that point costs for mutations are not yet balanced and that would mandate balancing them.
The mutation picker itself could be a rather simple function - a const function at that.
Though mutation scumming itself is pure tedium. And it itself isn’t balanced - robust genetics is 2 points, but with a good source of mutation can quickly grant over 10 points worth of good muts.
That parasite mutation really catched my eye. Nit the mi go one but the one before. If this is happening I will, after a long abstinence, join the mutants again (for a while at least). Btw do slime mutants still have a human shaped body or are they just like the blob? Also what happens to their organs?
You mean maintenance as in “player maintenance” or “code maintenance”?
Because if the former, I can agree, but not about the later. Unless you mean that point costs for mutations are not yet balanced and that would mandate balancing them.
The mutation picker itself could be a rather simple function - a const function at that.
Though mutation scumming itself is pure tedium. And it itself isn’t balanced - robust genetics is 2 points, but with a good source of mutation can quickly grant over 10 points worth of good muts.[/quote]The reasoning is that mutations aren’t supposed to have “karmic” balancing, to punish a player simply because they are doing good. Hell, this is already simulated in the fact you can get bad mutations by chance, and in trying to get them removed lose a really good one, also by chance.
Being able to get a really good set of mutations is a deserved status: it’s not “two points equals ten points”, actually getting the mutations is still a large investment to get the mutagens neededn whether a large investment of skill, time and resources, or in the rare instance you are ridiculously lucky and come across a massive cache of mutagens and purifies.
Slime internals are vagued up for RP purposes but can still be crit. I’m OK with Amorphous and/or Omnicellular reducing your chance to be crit, though.
You want a Perfect mutant, that’s your problem, and I’d have thought the health, resource, and addiction consequences would have discouraged mass-use of the stuff. Mutations, by definition, aren’t neat and tidy packages, they’re weird outlier things you’ve developed. The comparative advantage of bionics is that (with proper installation) they do what they say on the tin.
Basically, I have zero interest in revising how mutagens and purifier work.
Got a chance to look at that last mass-list, and I’ll consider 'em. Tough part is getting the steam up.
…I don’t know how the addiction system works, but ten gallons of mutagen results in a week long ‘addiction’ after everything’s all said and done, it’s not all that inconvenient. Which works out to about 21 days of suffering cold-turkey… Not sure how that works… …I am tired and apologize if that makes no sense.
…I don’t know how the addiction system works, but ten gallons of mutagen results in a week long ‘addiction’ after everything’s all said and done, it’s not all that inconvenient. Which works out to about 21 days of suffering cold-turkey… Not sure how that works… …I am tired and apologize if that makes no sense.[/quote]
np, weird shifts at a stressful job & commuting in lousy weather’ll do that. Stay safe and stay well.
I look forward to the day when I can actually play a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.
I’m surprised Shell/Roomy Shell isn’t on the lizard list. (Supposedly turtles aren’t true reptiles, or at least that’s something of an evolutionary controversy, but they seem close enough for game purposes.)
EDIT: after reading iceball’s post, perhaps I’m wrong on that
[quote=“Flashlight Hoarder, post:418, topic:3755”]I look forward to the day when I can actually play a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.[/quote]AKA turtle mutcat, combining siziness of cattle, shell and aquatics of cephalapod, everything epse from reptile?