Mutation category expansion

[FunsizeNinja123]

This ain’t Terraria. Your wings are not powered by the Soul of Flight.

Sigged.

[Logrin]

In general, Earth's gravity and air density make wings pretty impractical for humans: probably around 30-40 ft. (~10 meter) wingspan, minimum, and that's assuming you don't mind 'em under your arms (so no fair using your hands for any sort of fine manipulation when flapping your wings). Supplying the muscles and other infrastructure needed to keep 'em flapping is no joke either, especially when you've got the wings out of the shoulder area (separate logistics from the arms, implies heavier-duty heart, increased blood supply, etc).

Agreed. Completely. It also reminds me quite allot of this.[10:15 into the video] Precisely the reason I suggested a beefier upgrade of bird wings to make flight an option. They’d be enormous even with hollow bones being a consideration–and you wouldn’t be able to get particularly far on an empty stomach either. Still, you’d be able to make great tactical advantage of them when taking to the air–ie. scouting out a town from the safety of rooftops or dropping bombs from overhead.

[system]

Don’t forget we’re talking about future tech and alien DNA here. There’s plenty of exotic, superlight, superstrong materials we’re just starting to stumble across which could make unpowered flight more feasible. For example, graphene aerogel comes to mind as possible wing material: seven times lighter than air and able to support thousands of times its own mass. A forty foot wingspan suddenly becomes practical. There’s also carbon nanotubes, synthetic spidersilk, and even more exotic sci-fi materials like various types of strange matter such as degenerate quarks which can have physical properties which defy the known laws of physics altogether. And that’s not even mentioning the Rule of Cool, which, much though people may try to deny it, seems to be the basis for most of the content in this game. Gritty and realistic it’s not.

[JayJayForce]

[quote=“KA101, post:359, topic:3755”]In general, Earth’s gravity and air density make wings pretty impractical for humans: probably around 30-40 ft. (~10 meter) wingspan, minimum, and that’s assuming you don’t mind 'em under your arms (so no fair using your hands for any sort of fine manipulation when flapping your wings). Supplying the muscles and other infrastructure needed to keep 'em flapping is no joke either, especially when you’ve got the wings out of the shoulder area (separate logistics from the arms, implies heavier-duty heart, increased blood supply, etc).

It’s unlikely, but possible, that a nether dimension could have suitable parameters to enable flight.[/quote]

I actually think it’s quite likely that at least one of the nether planes or neighbouring planes have conditions suitable for flight. Flight isn’t really that difficult and the maximum reasonable size for a flying creature can vary a lot depending on relatively minor changes. Just look how big some of the extinct pterosaurs and birds could get.

An exhalent example for this is Titan. With four times the atmospheric pressure and half the surface gravity of Earth (not that much to ask from another dimension), an unmutated human could strap on some fake wings ala Icarus and go for an early morning flight around the neighbourhood. see http://what-if.xkcd.com/30/ for a more in-depth discussion.

(A bit off topic. Do the portals only lead to the Nether, or do they also go to some other dimensions? I think I read that on the Timeline on the wiki, but don’t remember it being said anywhere else.)

[Muaddib]

I’d say that the combination of wings and flight is a no-go.

That being said, flight doesn’t have to involve wings.

You know what I’m thinking brah.

[Okiemurse]

Birds also have unidirectional lungs! Whereas we have lungs that are bidirectional - air goes in, then back out, then back in mixed with old air that was not completely expired (you never let out 100% of the air in your lungs) much like a dead end road, bird lungs are set up shaped sorta like a U and air only passes one direction past the alveoli, ensuring that the air is always fresh, never mixed with old air, and refreshing itself both on chest expansion and compression. Much higher availability of oxygen in birds.

Doesn’t really add much to the conversation on wing mutations, I just thought it was cool.

The human lung: did evolution get it wrong?

[Pthalocy]

Bird lungs ARE super amazing, ours are kind of… outmoded, really. Yet we lucked out with freaky thumbs and humongous heads. Man, imagine if owls had crazy brain capacity like we do. Super-breathing to give their heads all that oxygen and crazy opposable owl-toes. They’d give us a run for our money haha.

[KA101]

[quote=“Okiemurse, post:366, topic:3755”]Birds also have unidirectional lungs! Whereas we have lungs that are bidirectional - air goes in, then back out, then back in mixed with old air that was not completely expired (you never let out 100% of the air in your lungs) much like a dead end road, bird lungs are set up shaped sorta like a U and air only passes one direction past the alveoli, ensuring that the air is always fresh, never mixed with old air, and refreshing itself both on chest expansion and compression. Much higher availability of oxygen in birds.

Doesn’t really add much to the conversation on wing mutations, I just thought it was cool.

Does add a bit to potential post-thresh mutations for the Bird category though.

[Okiemurse]

Yeah, not really sure what sort of in-game benefit that would have. You’d overall just be a bit more efficient at keeping your blood oxygenated I guess which could translate to… ???

[KA101]

1. some weird slight shortness of breath (lungs starting reconfiguring, pre-thresh, minor negative)
2. Definite lung reconfig, good luck running anywhere (post-thresh, major negative)
3. reconfig complete, decreased fatigue costs for active mutations -> increased stamina regen once Kevin’s stamina PR lands, possible prereq for Humming Wings, which provide a highly expensive hover capability so you can “jump” a tile or two

[Pthalocy]

OH wow with a stamina mechanic, bird mutation line’s roadrunner go-fast builds will really get interesting, and set them further apart from …well I guess raptor is also very distinct, but I like the further differentiation this would add without creating yet another mutation category.

[AllisonW]

Kevin’s stamina PR

Even before mutation anything I’m just looking forward to being able to sprint away from zoms, and mouth encumbrance having an effect that isn’t just another hit to your move speed

[Commie]

I noticed the “Insect” transformation didn’t have much identity and was pretty general, but the “Arachnid” one was specific and cool. So why not make “Insect” a bit more specific?

Bee (or wasp) mutagen, made with royal jelly. Replaces insect mutagen.

Post threshold transformation additions, bee stinger/abdomen thing. Works like other tails with an attack. Upgrades to a version that, when stung, causes an unfortunate victim to erupt as 1-3 player friendly bees/wasps burst out of them. This would work like those snake randarts, or those awful swamp things, and using this attack would consume a huge amount of hunger/thirst/fatigue.

[system]

Alpha/Elf-a mutagen both require bird’s eggs. If you start with the “sheltered” beginning there’s no way to make it for at least a season. Is this intended? Is there any reason feathers couldn’t be added as an alternative to bird’s eggs?

While I’m here, I’d like to suggest that slimy skin counteract the effect of acid. Since you leave a trail behind you, presumably it completely permeates your clothing. This should protect it from acid attacks. (I recently tried to traverse a road through a swamp and got jumped by a whole herd [pod? swarm? pride?] of slugs. I was barefoot and practically naked by the time I got away.)

[Rhodri]

Creating webs (spider mutation path) should increase hunger.

[Wally-kun]

[quote=“Commie, post:373, topic:3755”]I noticed the “Insect” transformation didn’t have much identity and was pretty general, but the “Arachnid” one was specific and cool. So why not make “Insect” a bit more specific?

Bee (or wasp) mutagen, made with royal jelly. Replaces insect mutagen.

Post threshold transformation additions, bee stinger/abdomen thing. Works like other tails with an attack. Upgrades to a version that, when stung, causes an unfortunate victim to erupt as 1-3 player friendly bees/wasps burst out of them. This would work like those snake randarts, or those awful swamp things, and using this attack would consume a huge amount of hunger/thirst/fatigue.[/quote]

There’s some interesting things you could do with a Wasp mutation. Parasite mutation + poison attacks = you just turned into a hit-and-run version of one of those nasty red wasp things that put maggots under your skin. Poison them and bait them around and wait for your horde to slowly form from beneath their ugly writhing flesh.

The maggots can mature and become (somewhat weaker) wasps themselves. This would, of course, require the entire Wasp mutation line to encourage that you stay out of harm’s way and bait enemies around - you’re weak by yourself and your power comes from the waiting game and making the enemy weaker. Poison and let your thrall devour your enemies and loot the corpse after.

That would definitely be a unique line. Would also be useful if you decided to just make the insect line into this sort of thing in general; there are plenty of parasites in the insect world to warrant just making it an insect-mutation trait in general. Post-threshhold, of course.

[Illogical_Blox]

I would like to see a Snake mutation path.

• Crushing Body: Animals next to you are damaged by your sinewous body wrapping around them
• Tail Legs: Your legs have turned into a tail. You cannot wear most types of legwear, and are 20% slower, but are much quieter.
• Dislocating Jaw: You can eat faster and swallow small live animals next to you in one.

And so on. Maybe it could be part of the Lizard path.

[Logrin]

I like how the categories are for the most part a broad spectrum of possible mutations. Insect mutagen doesn’t turn you into a specific type of insect but rather cobbles together a slew of possible bug-bits for you. Flies, beetles, mosquitos, ants, bees–there’s a bit of everything in there. Just like arachnid includes bits from more than one type of spider. Heck, it could be argued even alpha does this–human beings can lift massive weights, run one-minute miles and achieve a boggling level of intelligence; being able to do -all- of the above is what makes your character a mutant.

My personal opinion is that insect mutagen should be one of the most varied paths available, with post and pre threshold mutations that exclude others. Pigeon holing players as just one type of bug, or even cutting out wasps and other creepy crawlies as their own flavor of mutagen is the wrong way to go, I believe.

As for snakes. It’s been suggested, but from what I understand the current setup for bodyparts makes merging healthpools complex. Now, if we do ever get to a point where parts can be removed or added–yes–serpentine bodies would be fantastic. As would merging blobs entire bodies into a torso part.

[TheFlame52]

Random thought: Amorphous should cancel glass jaw. You don’t have a head any more.

[Commie]

[quote=“Wally-kun, post:376, topic:3755”][quote=“Commie, post:373, topic:3755”]I noticed the “Insect” transformation didn’t have much identity and was pretty general, but the “Arachnid” one was specific and cool. So why not make “Insect” a bit more specific?

Bee (or wasp) mutagen, made with royal jelly. Replaces insect mutagen.

Post threshold transformation additions, bee stinger/abdomen thing. Works like other tails with an attack. Upgrades to a version that, when stung, causes an unfortunate victim to erupt as 1-3 player friendly bees/wasps burst out of them. This would work like those snake randarts, or those awful swamp things, and using this attack would consume a huge amount of hunger/thirst/fatigue.[/quote]

There’s some interesting things you could do with a Wasp mutation. Parasite mutation + poison attacks = you just turned into a hit-and-run version of one of those nasty red wasp things that put maggots under your skin. Poison them and bait them around and wait for your horde to slowly form from beneath their ugly writhing flesh.

The maggots can mature and become (somewhat weaker) wasps themselves. This would, of course, require the entire Wasp mutation line to encourage that you stay out of harm’s way and bait enemies around - you’re weak by yourself and your power comes from the waiting game and making the enemy weaker. Poison and let your thrall devour your enemies and loot the corpse after.

That would definitely be a unique line. Would also be useful if you decided to just make the insect line into this sort of thing in general; there are plenty of parasites in the insect world to warrant just making it an insect-mutation trait in general. Post-threshhold, of course.[/quote]

I like it when things are specific rather than generalized. Most of the creatures in the game have some mutation or entire mutation line that’s taken from them. Except bees. Seeing as the insect line is sort of bee-like anyway with wings that buzz and crummy little vestigial arms, I just thought this would give it more identity, and make it not just a ‘worse’ spider mutation.