Human Adversaries

[Senrain]

Looters: Will typically base inside of a desirable location such as a grocery store, pharmacy, gun store, etc. clearing out infected but sticking close to the chosen location and never wandering far. Will pretty much always be armed with melee weapons, unless they find suitable ranged weaponry. Just want to be left alone and will shout a single warning to the player to back off their turf before all of them turn hostile.

Bandits: Will either base in large areas or wander in groups. Often a mix of melee and some ranged weaponry. Bandits will always be aggressive and attack the player on sight or just rob them.

Military Remnants: Ranged weaponry aplenty. Will order the player to stop to examine them for bites/infections/abnormalities. May extort the player for supplies or even forgo formalities and shoot at the player on sight if they have enough mutations.

Mutant Band: Wandering group of mutated humans. Armed with mix of melee/ranged weapons and whatever their mutations afford them. Hostile to normal humans, but friendly to the player if they are mutated enough.

That’s what I’ve thought of so far, mostly got these ideas from other people. Also suggest that Zombie aggro range for Hostile NPCs be halved at the very least, so they can actually survive to interact with the player.

[EkarusRyndren]

Well that could be amusing enough, it’d be nice to be able to see NPCs with a similar thought process for once. “…Bet he/she has some nice shit.”

[Senrain]

Well I figured hostile human monsters would be easier to put in, rather than trying to fix the current broken NPCs.

[Rivet]

I’ve thought about this before.

If nothing else, it would be a nice stopgap since NPCs don’t seem to be getting any smarter.

[EkarusRyndren]

since NPCs don’t seem to be getting any smarter.

“DEBUG: Tobias Franke tried to eat a lighter”

[Mrnocamera]

"DEBUG: Stephanie Brown tried to eat LIMB::R_ARM

[DrPepperNapalm]

I think it’s a good way to keep on the pressure for the player after hitting the “I can handle zombies effectively enough to loot freely” stage

[vache]

I think ranged attackers is a big thing missing from the current crop of enemies. It is too easy to evade almost any threat with speed enhancing drugs, and most threats even without them. But it would also destroy melee only builds, especially if you were caught in the open.

[Sharklaser]

I wouldn’t label NPC’s as “Bandits”, “Looters”, “Military” - but present them in generic “Survivor”. You know, people rarely wear badges to show instantly theyre bandits who are coming to kill you right? Ofc something like gangs under same flag or remains of military group would be easy to notice, but generally random bandit-looters and randome friendly NPC:s should have same basic status “Unknown person”.

You’d spot these things by behaviour more than outright seeing what this person is by tag. Maybe even introduce a new skill “Evaluation” that lets you have insight about the character you see or interact with. Some would fear you, others try to take advantage of you (either outright kill for your supplies or try to steal them when youre away).

[infectedmochi]

Many interesting ideas here…
A “survivor” NPC with unknown motives would be interesting, the player will have too figure it out before trusting a random NPC in the cataclysm. On the other hand, I think outright bandits in a cataclysm are plausible too, not everyone are smart or patient enough to try and trick you into believing them, they rather just shoot their guns and use brute strength to get what they want

The “Evaluation” skill could either be its own skill or be incorporated into the Perception attribute.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“Sharklaser, post:9, topic:3806”]I wouldn’t label NPC’s as “Bandits”, “Looters”, “Military” - but present them in generic “Survivor”. You know, people rarely wear badges to show instantly theyre bandits who are coming to kill you right? Ofc something like gangs under same flag or remains of military group would be easy to notice, but generally random bandit-looters and randome friendly NPC:s should have same basic status “Unknown person”.

You’d spot these things by behaviour more than outright seeing what this person is by tag. Maybe even introduce a new skill “Evaluation” that lets you have insight about the character you see or interact with. Some would fear you, others try to take advantage of you (either outright kill for your supplies or try to steal them when youre away).[/quote]

About that…

Maybe some false positives/negatives?

[John_Candlebury]

I am in favor of having the type of Npc influence the dressing code of Npcs. Also its important to remember than just because the apocalypse happened it means that everyone will become mercenaries/punks and that a lot of people would still dress and act with some resemblance of normality.

Groups could have the following flavor annd perhaps even safehouses serving as bases.

Gangmen: always hostile unless you start as a scoundrel or drug dealer and you are wearing gang colors. Wearing pants/cargopants, shorts, tank-tops, hoodies, bandanas and sunglasses, should be pretty easy to identify. The group is hostile to all others. Their bases are often low rent apartment buildings

Organized looters: could range from friendly to enemies unless the player is heavily mutated or dressed like a gang man in which case they are always hostile. They could wear from casual clothes to camping/fishing gear. Most often than not they should welcome you to their group if you have decent gear (either in good faith or only looking to kill you for your gear when you let your guard down). They bases could range from houses to shops to big shpping malls, omni-marts and complete neighborhoods

Rescue services: small possibly mixed groups of paramedics/police officers/firefighters should be always friendly unless the player is dressed as a gangman or is heavily mutated. They could take residence in public buildings (hospitals, police/fire stations, public works, schools, etc.)

And if we go the extra mile we could make buildings have chances of generating matching survivors near them, in both apparel and attitudes, instead of doing it like this. For example malls generating friendly people only doing the best to survive, shanty towns making gang members, high rise buildings generating organized looters, police stations and some houses generating lawful settlements around them, and so on and so on.

[kevin.granade]

I’m all for adding some human monster types to fill in the gap, and I think they’ll have a use even once we have working NPCs. Basically any enemy where their equipment isn’t going to change and you can’t meaningfully talk to them would be a candidate to just be a monster type. Those are the main things that seperate NPCs from mosters.

So for example if you had a camp of cannibals living in the hills, you’re not going to have a meaninful conversation with them, they’re either going to try and kill you, or run away if you’re too tough, just like the other monsters. Some might have guns, but I’d think it’d be fairly rare, probably just one or two per group. My first thought is to say these wouldn’t appear until well into the game, but then again maybe they’ve been affected differently by the goo, a’la “The Crazies”.

Also we could have some as a stopgap, like a group that has taken up residence in a megastore and cleared out the zombies. I think having them there as a threat that you inexplicably can’t talk to is preffereable to not having them there at all.

[EkarusRyndren]

you inexplicably can’t talk to is preffereable to not having them there at all.

Insert “GET OUT OF HERE S.T.A.L.K.E.R.” spam.

[Sharklaser]

Well… Collapse of social structure is one thing, going into total berzerk mode is another thing. Bandits are not automatically hostile - if you’re fat target with lots of goods and no value to bandits alive then you are probably dead in seconds if they get chance and/or even more so if you present any type of danger to them.

But. Lets assume you don’t have anything outright valuable, you approach them without (readied) weapon and you have some offer to make for them - they might not outright kill you but ask for your business and whats in it for them. They are volatile and untrustworthy - but not ouright maniac killers who kill for fun over profit. Provide for them and they might provide for you, atleast until youre outlived your welcome. They might provide security and stuff you need, but with steep price and many strings attached, earning their trust is hard and crossing their will has extreme consequences.

So no NPC should be totally out of reach, even the most psychopathic serial killer has use for the right contacts to other survivors. Most likely not you, but theoretically…

[EkarusRyndren]

So no NPC should be totally out of reach, even the most psychopathic serial killer has use for the right contacts to other survivors. Most likely not you, but theoretically…

We’re not talking NPC types here, just generic enemies. No reasoning with them. Either stay out of their way (akin to the “THIS IS MY TERRITORY JACKASS” NPCs) or prepare for a fight.

[John_Candlebury]

Well don’t get me wrong but as much is I enjoy being shot at, i think we need a cover system before implementing common adversaries with ranged attacks .

I mean gunplay with only the RNG to determine outcomes is not much fun, we need to bring some tactical elements into the plate.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“John Candlebury, post:17, topic:3806”]Well don’t get me wrong but as much is I enjoy being shot at, i think we need a cover system before implementing common adversaries with ranged attacks .

I mean gunplay with only the RNG to determine outcomes is not much fun, we need to bring some tactical elements into the plate.[/quote]

…good point.

[infectedmochi]

DoomRL has a “dodging”/sidestep mechanism in place to evade ranged attack, so we probably can get inspirations from that and incorporate it into Cataclysm.

Edit: here

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, I’m not so keen on this myself. I’d much rather, thematically, feel like I’m alone rather than having “random generic people who want to kill me more than anything else for no particular reason”.

I’m not sure I’d like the game essentially forcing you to kill the few other survivors you find because it says so.

Note that we do already have human NPC-less monsters - basically, mutants that have been so mutated they can barely be called human anymore (The CHUDs in the sewers).

With NPCs, even as bad as they are, there’s still the feeling that (even when they are sticking you up for your stuff) this is another survivor you’re dealing with, not just a monster roaming the wasteland with no purpose beyond seeing you dead. This is a human being who doesn’t ACTUALLY want to kill you (otherwise why would they be sticking you up?) and even if they are assholes they still feel, at least a little bit, human.

I’d much rather have nothing that hostile humans that shoot on sight without any motivation or reasoning applied at all and without any way to resolve the conflict nonviolently.

this isn’t to say we couldn’t have a more monsteresque version of NPCs that are less likely to break - If they could pop up with a message saying something like “Stay away from here, I can’t trust you” or something, and don’t turn hostile unless you move close or attack one of the group, that might be acceptable. But I think it’s vitally important for any eventual, meaningful development of NPCs that NPCs and “monsters” (of the monstrous sort) stay distinct.