Have Zombies' speed been increased?

Or generally updated from what the info shows on Chezzo?

There’s been multiple situations with multiple zombies, but the latest is the Bio-Operator showing a speed of 95 on Chezzo catching up to me relatively quick like a Zombie Dog - when i have 100 speed and 106 cost for each move.

Am i missing something? Is there more than goes into action cost to move than what the turn history is displaying?

So i just did some testing and i think Circular Distances are having the opposite effect on monsters - make a base character, go out onto an open field, spawn a Bio-operator diagonally 10 or so spaces away and while you run in a straight line - notice how not only is he not slower running at you diagonally, but he’s actually going faster and catches up to you in short order.

It can’t just be me.

Edit: Meanwhile if you spawn a bio in a straight line and run in a straight line you’re both mostly about even, as it should be going by the numbers.

By the way, how does the movement system work? Maybe her work will give us an answer: if he moves at a speed of 100/95 and you move at 100/106, does this mean that the game move passes (100 points = 1 second, as far as I know) and he moves to the cell, and you are not yet, and then passes 1 more move, he moves to the second cell, and you at this time only to the first? Or is it not 1 more move, but x/100 moves (need 6 more, so x=6), and it passes 6 / 95 and you pass 6/106?

100/95 = the number of tiles passed by the monster per game turn

Update: damn, by the way, if the monster has some cost of movement, the equation doesn’t converge. Then 100=95 is not necessarily the number of monster tiles per turn.

In other words, where do the extra points you spent on movement go?

There’s a really, really old bug (0.C+) - which might not have been fixed yet - that caused monsters to move at higher speeds and also caused “jumping”.

While I wasn’t able to observe “jumping” behavior like that anymore, at least not in the last few versions that I’ve checked, I’ve seen Feral Humans move 1 tile every second when I’ve set the speed of them to 1%… which would indicate that there’s probably still a bug. Maybe you’ve experienced that one?

They are subtracted from the points you have for your next turn…

To my understanding:
A “turn”, equal to an ingame second.
Moving from one tile to another does cost move points (well, all actions, really).
Different terrain have different costs, as seen by the “Move cost” value if you look at a terrain (default keys: x or ;).
All beings in the game has something that (for this explanation) we will call a “move point account”… Each turn that passes will set the being’s account to the current speed value and subtract the cost of the action taken.
If the player’s character move point account reaches 0 or he “ends” the turn (by pressing 5 or .), the next turn will start and - in case that the player’s character made an action that takes up more move points than it had on its account before the turn ended - substracts the remainder of the move cost from the account.
The move/action only finishes or gets executed if its remaining cost is zero.

Since I’ve explaind that very complicated, let’s take an example:

Mathematical example

Disclaimer: It’s possible that I’ve mixed up a few things, like the order or that actions would take place before the turn ends… But nonetheless, it should be accurate in its base…

Start of a fresh turn...
Acc = Character's move Account: 100
Speed = Character's base Speed: 100
Cost = Move cost of the ground: 100

Character gets ordered to move one tile...
Acc = Acc - Cost = 0
Turn ends (character hasn't moved yet).

New turn beginns.
Acc = Speed = 100
Acc = Acc - (remaining) Cost (which is 0) = 100
Action done, character moves 1 tile.

Waiting for the next order.

Now let’s add in a few more things: The Base Move Cost as shown in the character sheet (@) and also two monsters, a fast one and a slow one.

Start of a fresh turn...
Cost = Move cost of the ground: 100
C_Acc = Character's move Account: 100
C_Bmc =  Character's Base Move Cost: 106
C_Speed = Character's base Speed: 100
FZ_Acc = Fast Zombie's move Account: 150
FZ_Speed = Fast Zombie's Speedt: 150
SZ_Acc = Slow Zombie's move Account: 95
SZ_Speed = Slow Zombie's Speed: 95

Character gets ordered to move one tile...
Actual move cost = (Cost / 100) * (C_Bmc / 100) * 100 = 106
C_Acc = C_Acc - Actual move cost = -6
Character's remaining cost = 6
Character's account reached 0 and it didn't move.
Character did all it could, now monsters move...

Fast Zombie tries to move towards player...
FZ_Acc = FZ_Acc - Cost = 150 - 100 = 50
Fast Zombie's remaining cost = 0
The fast Zombie still has points left in his account and no remaining cost...
Fast Zombie moves a tile.
Fast Zombie tries to move towards player, again...
FZ_Acc = FZ_Acc - Cost = 50 - 100 = -50
Fast Zombie's remaining cost = 50

Slow Zombie tries to move towards player...
SZ_Acc = FZ_Acc - Cost = -5
Slow Zombie's remaining cost = 5
Slow Zombie didn't move.

All accounts reached 0, turn ends.
Moved tiles: Character: 0, Fast Zombie: 1, Slow Zombie: 0

New turn beginns.
C_Acc = C_Speed = 100
FZ_Acc = FZ_Speed = 150
SZ_Acc = SZ_Speed = 95

C_Acc = C_Acc - Character's remaining cost (which is 6) = 94
Action done, character moves 1 tile.
Waiting for the next order...

Let us assume it should move another tile...
C_Acc = C_Acc - Actual move cost = 94 - 106 = -12
Character's remaining move cost = 12

Character's done, let's move the monsters...
FZ_Acc = FZ_Acc - Fast Zombie's remaining cost = 150 - 50 = 100
Fast Zombie moves one tile...
FZ_Acc = FZ_Acc - Cost = 0
Fast Zombie (technically) moves another tile...

SZ_Acc = SZ_Acc - Slow Zombie's remaining cost = 95 - 5 = 90
Slow Zombie moves one tile...
SZ_Acc = SZ_Acc - Cost = 90 - 100 = -10
Slow Zombie's remaining cost = 10

Turn end...
Total tile's moved: Character: 1, Fast Zombie: 2 (or 3), Slow Zombie: 1

And so on, and so forth...

Based on all above (and the mathematical example), the Bio-Operator with a speed of 95 should slowly catch up to this character, but not really at the speed of a Zombie Dog…

If your character’s coughing or vomiting (and possible some other things too), it takes up move points (or even waste a turn). But I guess this isn’t the case here…

Funny that that’s a thing, because i’d actually thought it looked kind of like them jumping around.

The only thing is i can 100% reproduce it at will (with the test mentioned in my last comment) and it only seems to happen with diagonal movement - with Circular Distances enabled.

Without CD enabled, both straight line and diagonal movement the Bio-Operator moves around the same pace to the character.

Maybe that bug had been fixed, but is back again conflicting with Circular Distances specifically this time.

Only mods used too are Alternate Map Keys, Graphical Overmap (i feel like those aren’t compatible with eachother) CBM Slots and the default. Actually also tested on completely default new world and same thing.

I’ll have to give it a test…
With “jumping” I meant that they’ve moved 1 tile diagonally while also moving 1 (or 2? I don’t remember…) in a cardinal direction.

I think the circular distances caused it even back then… as someone stated that they didn’t experience that without circular distances.

One thing I’ve forgot to ask… You’re playing experimental, right?

Ah i didn’t know CD went back that far, yeah i’m playing on the experimentals.

Also, can red names such as “Bilious Soldiers” “Bio-Operators” and “Armored Soldiers” spawn 4 days in?

It’s a random thing like dead scientists only with a couple trashed military vehicles and like 7 - 8 enemies with Solder Zombies and the above.

If not, then maybe the issues with my files specifically.

Could you please make a bug report with this?

They are not.


Damn, thanks for confirmation.

Oh, on Github.

Edit: Not even sure if it is a bug yet or just me, but i made one.

Edit 2: i’ve felt this for like a week now at least, just before with a Tough zombie and/or something else. it didn’t matter then though because unlike a Bio-Operator on Day 4 - A faster Tough didn’t have too much of an impact so i didn’t look into it. So anyway, if so it’s been like this for a few experimentals at least.

little bit wrong with your math, rather than it being a character with 106 movement cost, it’d be a character with 94 movement speed, so they’d be 6 short for a full movement, but its the same idea number wise. 100 movement tile wouldnt impeed someone with 100 movement speed, but if they had 94 it would.

… and yes, i’ve also experienced slow zombies ‘jumping’ a couple tiles… most recently when i was playing around with my 150 movespeed supersoldier, a zombie (who hadnt even noticed me, was just wandering) generally moved in a slow pace 1 block every 2 of my movement (which is what it should be) until he decided to take a quick turn and jumped 3 blocks seemingly out of nowhere.

Edit: wait no i see what you mean now with the base movement cost… i’m dumb. that assumedly increases depending on how encumbered you are.

Yes, that’s the case (as for your understanding of the base movement cost, not the other part :wink: ).
Some traits, sicknesses and other things also influence the base movement cost… while pain and thirst and such stuff affects the speed.

I’ve tested it with a character that had a base move cost of 199 and 49 speed and it took about 4 seconds to move one (normal) tile, which would check out…

Was the most recent experience in the last stable or in a relatively recent experimental version?
And (in case you remember that detail) was it against a wall, fence or other “solid” furniture/terrain?

I’m also trying to reproduce these things right now and provide some animated gifs of them…

middle of the street. i’ve got on the ACS-74 stealth cloak so they dont see me at all. if you just sit in one spot and wait for a while, you’ll notice em wandering around, back and forth… but sometimes when they move they’ll just instantly move from one spot to a few blocks away from where they started in one turn, almost as if they built up their movement points and used them all at once.

(also i’m on the latest experimental)

Let me guess, that movement also wasn’t in a straight line? To a tile a few spaces away in a straight line?

a few spaces away, usually not in a straight line… closest thing i can compare it to is zombies doin knight jumps like they’re playin chess with the movement system.

of note, in the cloak its possible to get zombies to follow you if you stand at close enough distance that they hear your footsteps, but they wont be alerted, which will allow you to more accurately document their movement while moving in your direction

Thought so.

Def CD diagonal movement bug.

thats after 2 turns of me moving downward, it stood still then hopped.

Now turn Circular Distances off and i bet you can’t reproduce it.

I knew CD was evil.

seems to have taken 2 movements there…
edit: and after waiting a single turn, took another 2.

and this is with circular off.

Maybe it can still happen with CD off too, just alot more pronounced with it on.

When i had it off going diagonally, straight line or anything inbetween - we still kept about same distance.

Only tried once or twice and didn’t look at each individual movement though, just held key down some each time.