Cut vs Pierce

[Paquito]

The combat knife lists a “pierce” value, while the machete lists a “cut” value. What’s the difference? Is it just a matter of cutting skill vs piercing skill that’s developed? When calculating throwing damage, are piercing and cutting values are equivalent?

[asdfzxc]

IIRC piercing weapons are able to bypass a certain amount of armor.

[AerialK7]

IIRC piercing weapons are able to bypass a certain amount of armor.

I think there is no “armor” to protect against piercing. Though I may be wrong. (I didnt use the code option because it didnt let me change the colors/italics/bold)

[size=8pt]{
“type” : “MONSTER”,
“id” : “mon_zombie”,
“name”: “zombie”,
“species”:“ZOMBIE”,
“symbol”:“Z”,
“color”:“ltgreen”,
“size”:“MEDIUM”,
“material”:“flesh”,
“diff”:3,
“aggression”:100,
“morale”:100,
“speed”:70,
“melee_skill”:6,
“melee_dice”:2,
“melee_dice_sides”:3,
“melee_cut”:0,
“dodge”:0,
“armor_bash”:0,
“armor_cut”:0,
“item_chance”:40,
“luminance”:0,
“hp”:50,
“special_freq”:5,
“death_function”:“ZOMBIE”,
“special_attack”:“BITE”,
“description”:“A human body, swaying as it moves, an unstoppable rage is visible beneath its oily black eyes.”,
“flags”:[“SEES”, “HEARS”, “SMELLS”, “STUMBLES”, “WARM”, “BASHES”, “POISON”, “BLEED”, “NO_BREATHE”, “VIS40”, “REVIVES”],
“categories”:[“CLASSIC”]
}[/size]

[raccoon]

Paquito: When throwing a weapon, you may hit the enemy edge-first or point-first. This gives a substantial damage bonus! But you need skill in throwing to do so. If you are unskilled in throwing, you’ll just be doing blunt damage (e.g. you throw a knife and hit 'em with the handle like a n00b).

AerialK7: If you dig into the code, you find that both piercing and cutting damage are blocked by an armor’s cut rating.

---

Since we’re talking about armor:

Both cutting weapons and piercing weapons can bypass a certain amount of armor–the amount depends on your skill in the appropriate weapon type. The armor piercing bonus for cutting skill is meager, while the armor piercing bonus for piercing skill is very substantial. For a high-level piercing-weapon user, armor is a non-issue.

Piercing and cutting weapons/skills are different in several ways. These ways are accurately described in the skill descriptions for piercing and cutting, if you want a non-spoiler source of information.

[AerialK7]

AerialK7: If you dig into the code, you find that both piercing and cutting damage are blocked by an armor’s cut rating.

Ah, I didnt know that. Thanks for clearing it up xD

[Paquito]

Paquito: When throwing a weapon, you may hit the enemy edge-first or point-first. This gives a substantial damage bonus! But you need skill in throwing to do so. If you are unskilled in throwing, you’ll just be doing blunt damage (e.g. you throw a knife and hit 'em with the handle like a n00b).

I didn’t see this represented in the code when I searched around github. Also, the only references to “pierce” seemed to be on ammunition. Like, in the in-game description, javelins have a “pierce” score, but in the json, it’s represented as cut damage.

[GlyphGryph]

There is no such thing as piercing damage. There is only blunt damage and cutting damage. This is scheduled to change, but right now they are identical.

However, the skill used to do “cutting” attacks and “piercing” attacks differs, and that’s the only place that really comes into it.

[raccoon]

[spoiler]You have to really dig into the code and see all the cross-references to find it. The “cutting” score you find for weapons in the *.json files is used for both cutting and piercing weapons. It turns into the “Cut” score you see on the in-game user interface for cutting weapons. However, a weapon’s “cutting” score in the .json files turns into the “Pierce” score in-game for piercing weapons.

Also, under melee.cpp you can see that a piercing weapon’s damage is calculated based on a piercing weapon’s .json “cutting” score. Try to think of the “cutting” score in the .json files as meaning “This weapon’s cutting OR piercing score.”

The armor piercing score for ammunition is a different thing entirely. Ignore it when discussing melee weapons.[/spoiler]

To summarize: The coding’s a bit complex, but what it boils down to is that when you look at a melee weapon’s description in-game, what you see is what you get. The only real differences among blunt, cutting, and piercing damage are the skill effects.