Cut down on the realism

Since my last post was a “pointless rant” from the moderators message
Again, can we cut off with the realism? This is what kills games.
Many people like CDDA for its simple and expansive nature, not cause people suggest things that are very hard and annoying to implement for the developers, along with being detrimental to the overall value of the game, like making bread baking 6 steps, and such.
If you mute me for this being a “rant”. You are biased towards your own preferences, and not the good of the community.

So please, let us have some comedic fun with the game, like infinitely harvestable hickory nut trees.

And I’m open to criticism on this, I’d like to hear your reasons.

… For example? Which one?

Well, I like realism in games and I don’t feel like it’s getting out of hand. It seems that it’s still balanced in Cataclysm DDA and everyone seems to take care of that.

Unless you’re adressing the one person who closed your topic: If someone mutes you, they are using their right to choose if they want to listen to you or not. This doesn’t make them “bad to the community”. But thinking that everyone has to listen to you (or read your opinion) does…

1 Like

I’m talking about the moderator who deleted my post, my bad for not correcting.

CDDA currently has more downloads and more players than at any point in its history. If the trend towards realism is killing the game, it’s killing it very slowly.

Speaking only as the current primary (but thankfully not only) vehicle code developer, realism has not killed that section of the code. Firmly grounding the vehicle code in real world units and real world physics has made it easier to understand and explain. The couple of people we’ve lost because they can’t drive their tank at a theoretical 1000 mph are more than offset by the wider variety of viable vehicles that can be built.

But hey, if you don’t like realism, you can do something about that! Now that Aftershock is turning into the far-future alien colonization mod, we need a maintainer for a science fantasy kitchen sink total overhaul mod! Since you care so much about this issue, why don’t you step up to the plate and start working on one?

9 Likes

I’m assuming your being sarcastic about the “help aftershock modders” thing. Along with being unsure where you got your statistics for the above figure of the “game growing”.
But if realism is your lead direction. Here’s some suggestions.

remove crude sword recipe (banging chunks of steel on a wooden sword does not = weapon)

Remove electric fire starter recipe (wires and chunks of rigid steel does not = fire starter)

Remove stone chopper recipe (a flaking stone does not = knife)

Advanced metabolic system (like SCUMS, UI)
Add all the range of human diseases, make healing from wounds take ingame months for a few types (bullet, deep stab, deep laceration)
I’m sure you’d have fun cataloguing all the diseases of the human body in the game.

Add vaccinations for typhus, tetanus and other diseases.

Balance out item weights compared to quantity and volume.

Make mining accurate with volume

NPC’s act like separate AI controlled instances of your game UI.

That’s just a few “realism” ideas I had.

If that’s the kind of “discussion” you had previously I’m not surprised it was considered a rant.

“Realism” doesn’t mean every little thing in real life should be implemented in the game, but unless there’s a lore reason for why something doesn’t work like it does in reality (like blob assisted healing), what’s in there should be somewhat similar to real. However, there’s a balance between realism and playability, so sometimes realism has to be toned down a bit to make for an enjoyable game experience (for those who happen to like the genre, of course: those wanting an PFS should seek one out, for instance).

I don’t consider mlangsdorf’s suggestion to be sarcastic: if you don’t want realism you should aim for the mods that veer away from it. Contributing to mods is the best way to give yourself a chance to see your ideas realized (assuming the other participants share your vision to at least an accepting extent, of course).

4 Likes

Most sound great! The reason these are not in the game is not because we don’t want to make it realistic, it’s because it takes time to work on.
You realize that the game is still in “alpha” phase of the development, right?

2 Likes

Why would I be sarcastic about asking you to contribute? This is an open source game, and all the contributions are made by interested volunteers. A less realistic game seems like something you are interested in, so why wouldn’t I ask you to make a contribution?

I have plenty of my own projects, though. Many of the things you’ve suggested seem like good ideas, but I already did one comprehensive item overall project for 0.F and I’m not eager to do another. But if would be great if someone went through and made sure that every item had a reasonable mass, volume, and density.

7 Likes

I also like the suggestion of making mining yield the right amount of material. It’s on my list of to-dos, actually…
(It’s also a bit weird to be able to fill a hole just from air…)

The problem with that is probably that we still don’t have a fix/defined size of tiles, so it’s a bit hard to calculate propperly…

1 Like

Add all range of human diseases/…/vaccinations against thyphus, tetanus

Well, whenever somebody takes a realism pass at water treatment it will present a good opportunity to add cholera and co. I’d probably roll them into an aggregate, though. The same is true for long-timespan rotting/shelf life, botulism roulette should liven up eating canned goods from last year a bit.

Looting intact vaccines (even those without a cold chain) would be a pretty rare event, but refreshing your tetanus protection is fair game for when it gets a touch-up in the wound rework.

Other than that, wound infections will get a bit of overhaul in the near future, and at least one kind of pneumonia should be easy enough to implement.

This is all assuming you’re making suggestions in good faith :slight_smile: .

2 Likes

I would like to see mining yield a special kind of trap/furniture/field called ‘loose stone’ that needs to be removed before a tile is passable. So first you mine it out, then you move the rubble somewhere.

1 Like

As mlangsdorf said, downloads and player base for this game have only been increasing, so I don’t think the basic premise of “realism is killing the game” is true. I’ve been here three years or so, and when I arrived that mantra was already many years old, yet here we are.

Your core premise falls into the old false dichotomy of ‘realism/fun’ as if these are the only options, and having one is necessarily the opposite of the other. However, this is (pretty obviously) false. Many things are more realistic and more fun. many things are less fun and less realistic. It would be less realistic to require a laser gun to boil water, and also less fun. It would be more realistic to have NPCs with better AI, and also more fun.

That’s the summary. You’re being muted because your rant is incoherent, offers no actionable suggestions, and is something we’ve heard a lot and are tired of.

7 Likes

No. Why would we cut it down?

3 Likes

The previous post and this one are pointless rants for several reasons.
This topic has been brought up a number of times and been definitively answered already.
Your assertion that realism kills games is a meme with nothing to back it up.
“Many people like CDDA for…” is not a reason to change development direction, “many people” like CDDA for innumerable different and contradictory reasons, that’s not a good basis for setting development direction.
You also aren’t saying anything specific enough to act on, even if you did have a point.
The only thing you do mention is trivially moddable, so do that if you really care.

I’ll leave the thread because other people made meaningful responses to your meaningless prompt, but if you’re not willing to accept moderation feedback, you have to go, bye.

9 Likes

That would be indeed interesting.
And/or also behave a bit like digging a pit (as in multiple depths)? I mean, right now you can choose between “tile fully occupied” (unmined and up to 99% finished construction) and “tile empty” (mined; 100% constructed).
But mining realistically can be anything between “small ventilation pipe”, “just enough to crawl through”, “enough to walk stooped over”, …
Ideally one can choose between a quick access shaft and a fully mined out basement, including some of the steps inbetween…

…Great, now I have another thing on my todo list :smirk:

Oh no :frowning: . Now I’ll never find out which games got killed by realism :cry: :wink: .

1 Like

“The core tenet of dark days ahead is if it works in reality, it works in the game.” So, while making things more realistic overtime might make things more tedious for some people, it also creates an ever more creative world where people truly realize the freedom they have in the game and in their own life. Adding more detail and realism might push some players away, but by adding it, this creation becomes more beautiful, fascinating, educational as well as the fact that the vastness of options leads to people playing more thoughtfully and thus playing the game in a more unique and personal way. If someone isnt happy with this, then virtually every other game out there provides simpler more streamlined games and processes. Also, you could just play older versions of the game as one solution… or even start you’re own fork of it, and get support from other likeminded players little by little.

5 Likes

Real Life isn’t inherently fun all the time, and that’s something you can’t ignore. There are things that could use some improvement - and I am harping on this point again but “Having to stare at water for X hours while it boils” being one of them, that isn’t realistic at all - but then again, we have to understand and accept that the capable people who work on the game (both introducing and maintaining content) also have their own lives to look after.

It’s understandable that there may be things we don’t like in the game - some features/functions/mechanics for example - but every mechanic has at least a simpler alternative. For example, and I speak from experience here: Don’t like guns because there are too many gun types and ammo to try and make sense of, because you don’t know anything about guns and ammo? There’s bows, melee weapons. Or just, you know, avoidance.

I never understood the whole thing against realism, or in fact saying the game is boring because it’s turning too much into realism. Where’s the realism in having zombies, Lovecraftian creatures, mutations, sentient-amorphous slimes and anthropomorphic fungaloids? Because I am 100% sure neither of those exist. Or at least I believe they don’t, as I am yet to see a Mi-Go, a Tear in Reality or a Shoggoth IRL, and I am very well travelled. :thinking:

2 Likes

Or generic guns‮‮.
‮‮‮

4 Likes

i always find it funny that people attempt to steer a game in a direction that they enjoy, completely ignoring the fact that other people enjoy it as it is. s’kinda selfish~

(and they can just change it themselves to be the way they want it… it makes zero sense!)

1 Like