Avast ye scurvy dogs!

[_k1]

Food would be less tedious if it could be automated.

When you press alt+e, for instance, your character would eat and drink from inventory until full and slaked.

[Grandpuh_Ty]

Educational -> http://imgur.com/gallery/EldDI

[ChJees]

Do not suffer much from the vitamin mechanic in experimental. With a character that Hate Fruit as a trait i only ever get Scurvy which is easily amended with a multi vitamin or two.

The true sufferers i guess are carnivore only character who quickly should get all kinds of vitamin deficiency. Unless those mutations let them synthesize the vitamins from meat, offals, fat and bone. Letting you to Eat bones by breaking snapping them open for the marrow could be a good solution.

[kevin.granade]

Have a resource: https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8852139/Mayberry.html?sequence=2

Tl;dr scurvy symptoms first appear 60-90 days after the start of a Vitamin C deficient diet, meat has no appreciable vitamin C content. Organs such as the liver do (we’re already looking into adding organ meats to butchering).

I’m against adding “craving” hints, as they don’t happen in reality (I’m not sure what makes you think they do…), though a self-diagnosis based on medical knowledge or similar would be good. Blood analysis CBM could also give a listing of current deficiencies Well before they become an issue. Post-onset, all deficiencies should have an initial set of symptoms that warn the player that there is a problem without seriously impacting gameplay.

As for adjusting vitamin content based on game balance, I’m very against it. Foods that have certain vitamins IRL should have them in the game.

A note about durations, the season length setting does not adjust anything but seasons, vitamin deficiencies will not be adjusted based on it. they will be set based on real onset times for the deficiency in question.

[pisskop]

I dont have much else to say right now.

[Shopkeeper]

So I’ve been playing the more recent experimentals on a fresh character and thought I’d try to get an feel for the new nutrition system. On day 5 I found and took my first multivitamin to establish a baseline then went on to rely solely on eating actual food for my vitamin needs. It’s currently day 13 and I just realized my character has developed night blindness due to a lack of vitamin A. I thought I’d been maintaining a fairly balanced diet, at least early on before I found a working car I foraged a lot for wild vegetables and other nutrient rich foods to cook up back at camp. Then I fell into old habits and binge survived on brioche and clean water while raiding. I don’t think it’s necessarily hard keeping a balanced diet, you just need to unlearn the whole stuffing your face to satisfy hunger and quench. Failing that I’ve probably got like 100+ multivitamins now from the usual early game scavenging.

[deoxy]

So I’ve been playing the more recent experimentals on a fresh character and thought I’d try to get an feel for the new nutrition system. On day 5 I found and took my first multivitamin to establish a baseline then went on to rely solely on eating actual food for my vitamin needs. It’s currently day 13 and I just realized my character has developed night blindness due to a lack of vitamin A. I thought I’d been maintaining a fairly balanced diet, at least early on before I found a working car I foraged a lot for wild vegetables and other nutrient rich foods to cook up back at camp. Then I fell into old habits and binge survived on brioche and clean water while raiding. I don’t think it’s necessarily hard keeping a balanced diet, you just need to unlearn the whole stuffing your face to satisfy hunger and quench. Failing that I’ve probably got like 100+ multivitamins now from the usual early game scavenging.

And this why I’m staying away right now. It takes 2 decent doses of vitamin A a YEAR to stave off night-blindness, and you’re getting it in less than a season even with vitamins?!? Yeah, no thanks.

[Coolthulhu]

And this why I’m staying away right now.

Vitamins don’t do anything yet. They only list the message. The sign of them getting mechanical effects will be addition of a mod that disables them.
People staying away from them only mean they will take longer to balance.

[MormonPartyboat]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:28, topic:11742”]Vitamins don’t do anything yet. They only list the message. The sign of them getting mechanical effects will be addition of a mod that disables them.
People staying away from them only mean they will take longer to balance.[/quote]

I’m playing around with them, but the amount of vitamins a player needs versus how it’s displayed makes it pretty obtuse. Might be a good idea to shift it to show % recommended daily value or something like that, or maybe including a blood tester to see how our vitamin levels are doing?

[Logrin]

On the topic of vitamin deficiencies certain mutations should preclude some of the effects. Such as carnivores needing much lower doses of certain vitamins. Or night vision mutations providing immunity to night blindness.

Would be neat if Junkfood/Lactose intolerance or other mutations came into play

[Coolthulhu]

Such as carnivores needing much lower doses of certain vitamins. Or night vision mutations providing immunity to night blindness.

Carnivores don’t need vitamin C. This is already implemented.

With night vision, it would make more sense for it to increase consumption of vitamin A rather than provide immunity to lack of it.

[TheKobold]

Been keeping an eye on my vitamins with the debug menu, at first I felt like they vanished too fast but after a little research t appears the Calcium, B12, and C are water soluble and mainly excreted with urine the body mostly only absorbs what it needs on a daily basis. Iron and A on the other hand are fat soluble and build up slowly.

To me it appears that Iron and A are vanishing a bit too fast.

Though I have to say that the negative amounts do accumulate to fast.

Otherwise I am loving the bit of extra flavor(pun intended) that vitamins add to the game.

[Logrin]

Which leads to the odd combination of mutation trees that pair carnivore with some version of night vision gaining night blindness from meaty diets. As is I’ve had it proc now and then, even when padding my character’s diet with offal. (Like a carnivore do)

[X-PLODE]

Playing Broken Cyborg in Ice Lab challenge.

Made it outside and settled in a mansion, got scurvy at day 5…

It’s now 15 days in and every damn day i forage for wild vegetables for VIT C and beat scurvy, then when i go to sleep it comes back and the cycle repeats again.

Fuck you.

cataclysmdda-0.C-4779

[TheKobold]

Oh wow, I just noticed Npc’s have vitamin needs… This sounds like a bad ideal. Especially since it is already tedious enough to keep them fed…

I don’t mind a small amount of micro for my own character but stacking these requirements onto npc’s whom we have very little control over how they eat is just bad…

[Coolthulhu]

Reminder that vitamins don’t do anything at the moment.

Oh wow, I just noticed Npc’s have vitamin needs.

They will probably be special cased into not needing vitamins when vitamin penalties start happening. Having them balance vitamins vs nutrition would require micromanagement.

[Logrin]

I kind of like the idea of my companions all having scurvy, since I basically make them eat nothing but junkfood.

[TheKobold]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:36, topic:11742”]Reminder that vitamins don’t do anything at the moment.

Oh wow, I just noticed Npc’s have vitamin needs.

They will probably be special cased into not needing vitamins when vitamin penalties start happening. Having them balance vitamins vs nutrition would require micromanagement.[/quote]

Ok, good to know.

[jcd]

I’m against adding “craving” hints, as they don’t happen in reality (I’m not sure what makes you think they do…),

i’m sorry but i do get cravings. Not expecting everyone’s system to work that way, but it does work for me. I wouldn’t write about it otherwise.

I mean i may not eat bread for a month, but then i do get a craving, and go eat 1-2 loafs within two days.
Same with fruit, when i skip 'em, i miss 'em and then i feel a strong urge to eat something sour.
Same with meat and vegetables, though i usually won’t ommit them for long enough to feel that way.

Anyway, to the point:
I have played a bit with this feature on and what i find hard to obtain is calcium. But i do take multivitamins regularly and try to both hunt and farm if possible.

I do believe that 3-4 days to fully develop a meaningful problem is too fast. It may be true IRL, but IRL one would go eat some greenery (even some types of grass or tree leaves in small amounts like cats do) with his meat and balance it out, unless really none were available. That must be why scurvy was encountered and identified in sea voyages where really no options where available.

In-game this is not possible and i’d argue against it being possible (a bit too much micro for not much gain), so maybe it could be a bit abstracted by just being a bit more lenient with vitamin needs.

Catch the worst offenders and promote variety in food, sure. But it should not be “do this manually or die/cripple yourself” kind of option, meant to be honoured every two days. That’s a bit severe.

[BackwardsomeN]

Gotta say, I am generally most content lurking for any roguelike I get addicted to. The most recent updates (Kudos to Remyroy for the CDDA-Launcher) included the vitamin business and I was sufficiently irritated to register just to bitch about this. I dislike this new addition. A lot.

[spoiler=frustration fueled rant ahead]
Somebody spilled their gahdam OCD nutrition simulator into my post apocalyptic deathmobile playland. Now fair is fair, and the largest reason this grinds my gears is I already neurotically try to balance my PC food intake woods soup, meats, combined with two plant based food items, and daily vitamins. NPC better not pick up that vitamin before I can, or there will be blood. And now I start getting low health red text on wakeup all the dam time. It’s infuriating for me. What is more, though there is information on what vitamins are provided by specific foods, I have no earthly idea what the depletion rates are or my current value, nor my maximum. Just a wakeup red text saying, hey BackwardsomeN stop ineffectually faffing about. Whatever you are doing with diet is bad. You should eat better!

How? Damn you, how? Do I need to convert to veganism? Consume only free gahdam range zombie? Maybe if I convert to cannibalism, I can be sure to get all the nutrients I need because people are made out of them.

In game I have feedback on the dam variable friction generated by different size tires. I have warning popups based on temperature and windspeed based cooling. There are visual and text based reports on sound in the immediate environment. No matter how many different types of ammo there are, you can check to see if the weapon you found uses any of them. But new vitamin land? Sum total of feedback is morning red text.

And don’t trot out that this is based off real life, cravings don’t happen shite argument either. The game is necessarily an abstraction, and as a result has to provide player feedback to allow for reasoned choices. If the player needs to have the coders gahdam knowledge base in order to intelligently operate this new system, then the abstraction is at an inappropriate gahdam level. I am not a dietitian, and I do not formulate daily vitamin tablets in my home kitchen. I do not know it, and I do not want to know it. The relationship between deep nutrition simulation and extra dimensional black ooze puppeting corpses and kicking off a zombpocalypse is tangential at BEST. Managing abstracted caloric value and morale bonuses? Fine. Either give far more information or take it the hell out of the core game. Add Nutrition Simulator OCD edition as a gahdam mod, not default.

Inarticulate rage based noises

I have never empathized with a Lewis Black rant more than right now. Now that I have that out of my system, I am off to github to figure out when Nutrition Simulator 2016 infected my damn roguelike.