Actual snipers/Ghillie suits

[AerialK7]

So count this point as invalid if you wish

[Zordelraak]

1. We already have bolt-action, so we need sniper rifles. There must be some differences between thoose rifles like anti-materiel rifle (12.7x108mm, .50BMG and 14.5x114mm/.57Cal), law enforcement sniper rifles (7.62x39/51mm and 5.56x45), military sniper rifles (.338, .300, etc).
2. Tunnel vision must be applied when player uses scope/iron sights, and therefore must have different cone, like with iron sights you see everything around you, but with scope you get “tunnel” vision and need a turn to change firing position.
3. No need in making sniper rounds rare, they must be in lesser amount than any other ammo (like 30-06, it’s not that rare, but you encounter it in small amounts).
4. Add aim stance, in which you are more accurate, but it gives you movement penalty. With scope attached see №2.
5. Holographic sights increase aim speed, so they should slightly increase accuracy and recoil should have less penalties. Also might need laser sights, tactical flashlights (maybe effect of shock/blindness on enemy), thermo scope, X-Ray scope (see through walls?).
   Other ideas
   Gauss rifle: it might be like railgun, but with more ap capabilities and lesser damage, uses 2mm bolts.
   Arc cannon: create arc of electicity which damages everything on it’s way, uses plutonium charges.
   High caliber machineguns, Miniguns, etc. Cataclysm already has laser weapons, but small amount of heavy weapons, so it could be better if it had more weapons with different capabilities and own strenghts and weaknesses, I’m not implying that we have small amount of firearms, but you must agree that in future there should be much more firearms, so maybe we should add some cyberpunk weaponry.

[AerialK7]

^^YES.

[Misha]

The only difference between a random rifle and a sniper rifle is barrel length and whether or not it has a scope.

[Vucar_Fikodastesh]

I believe that it is implied that all of the single shot accuracy rifles come with scopes stock. The sniper rifle conversion kit definitely adds one, in any case. The actual use of the scope is abstracted away- the existence or lack of a scope is simply factored into the guns accuracy stat.

What im proposing is long range snipers, seeing in game a Remington can only shoot twice the distance of a AK-47, but I guess the survivor isnt a expert marksman…So count this point as invalid if you wish

That has more to do with the limited number of area loaded around the player. Here is a forum discussion about the range of the Remington 700.

Under field conditions with a solid rest, with the big game calibers I consider my max ranges to be 270: 450, 7MM Mag 500, 338 Mag, 350. I'm a Sniper School graduate and every variable has to be in my favor before I'll take a shot at a live game animal at these max ranges, though.

As for the longest field shots I have made with these rifles, I have taken deer with the 270 at 420 yards, deer with the 7MM at 320 yards, and a big bull elk with the 338 at 240 yards…

This is far beyond the maximum limits of the loaded area. Sure a .338 Accuracy International rifle might have double that range under ideal conditions, but that extra range is meaningless.

[Zordelraak]

.338 has max range of ~1.5 km, but every weapon can shoot out of effective range and hit the target. Max firing range with sniper rifles is ~2.2 km, but I forgot with which rifle
Sniper rifles mostly need ideal maintance in order to function properly, so we need add some sort of cleaning kits for firearms, maybe even craftable. Though sniper rifles are menacing weapons, they need everyday maintance or they will be just long staff which is hard to use.
In order to be of use in cataclysm they must have own silencers in order not to attract zombies, also we need more rocket launchers, preferably which can be reloaded (RPG-7 for example), because M72 is quite hard to find and can’t be crafted (fortunatly explosive slugs are craftable).
Besides we need some sort of camouflage, like already suggested it must be quite bulky, still easy to change position in it, maybe different types, that consists of separate parts like boots, pants, vest, etc, but found in full complectation, or maybe like power armor: full suit with helmet. In either way it must be in bunkers or outposts.

Oh before i forget… We need mounted turrets that can be used on vehicles/terrain, they would have no recoil, but instead they can be overheated and therefore need cooldown before they can fire again.

[Hyena_Grin]

I believe that it is implied that all of the single shot accuracy rifles come with scopes stock. The sniper rifle conversion kit definitely adds one, in any case. The actual use of the scope is abstracted away- the existence or lack of a scope is simply factored into the guns accuracy stat.

That’s news to me. As far as I’m aware there’s really no reason to believe that rifles come with scopes. Obviously the sniper conversion kit adds one, but prior to that I’m skeptical. In any case, that doesn’t mean that scopes couldn’t be added with their own special mechanics.

As for the stuff on maximum ranges vs viewing distance, I agree that the guns are arbitrarily limited in their range based on the viewing distance. That was one of the purposes of coming up with the scope/tunnel-vision idea. You could dramatically increase your view distance by drawing a long rectangular view using the same number of tiles, just oriented directly in front of the player character. You couldn’t see as far to the left or right, and you couldn’t see behind you, but all of those blacked out tiles could be used to extend the view for the purpose of long-range shooting. You should be able to get about 2x the viewing distance in one direction by sacrificing tile visibility behind you and on the sides of your line of sight. So range could become a bit more of a factor, though even in that case I’m doubtful that the distance would be enough to represent the maximum ranges of rifles.

It’s hard to say how difficult/feasible it would be to change the way the game draws its tiles, though.

The only difference between a random rifle and a sniper rifle is barrel length and whether or not it has a scope.

Yes, I really can’t stress this enough. People seem to be treating sniper rifles like they are some special, unique breed that require their own special mechanics. While there are some purpose-built sniper rifles on the market, they are mostly masturbatory weapons designed for public consumption, and aren’t really superior to a Remington model 700P in any meaningful way. The only significant difference between the 700 and 700P is the barrel. And that is the rifle used by the armed forces and police forces in the US and (I believe) a good part of the western world. And they actually use their rifles for the task that sniper rifles are famed for. These other purpose-built sniper rifles are rarely ever used by actual trained snipers, as far as I am aware. What they are is expensive rifles designed to look intimidating and a lot of little tweaks to improve firing comfort.

Any new mechanics should be applicable to all guns; or where it makes sense, any gun that can mount a scope.

[Sheb]

Yeah, anygun should be able to be equiped with a sniper conversion mode. "a"ctivating a gun with the mod would make you enter scope view, you’d be prompted for a direction, and you could then sweep the field of view by using the up and down arrow key or equivalent. Of course, you cannot do anything but fire and reload while in scope view, and firing should be slower. Maybe just generally slow the player down in scope view.

"a"ctivating binoculars should allow for something similar, except you couldn’t fire with them.

This way there is no need to create a new class of weapons. And if you want to make a 9mm pip sniper rifle, you can, (bu good luck with that one)

[Slax]

Scopes giving increased accuracy is a janky thing. Won’t make your weapon any more stable or reliable. You’ll just see farther.
Guess it’d have to do with the current system though.

Have a somewhat large comic strip depicting how I see all of this working out.
Complete with limited edition grammatical errors and typos!

[AerialK7]

I think if cleaning kits were added the Kalashnikov weapons wouldnt require much maintenance

[TheRealTenman]

[quote=“Slax, post:29, topic:1020”]Scopes giving increased accuracy is a janky thing. Won’t make your weapon any more stable or reliable. You’ll just see farther.
Guess it’d have to do with the current system though.

Have a somewhat large comic strip depicting how I see all of this working out.
Complete with limited edition grammatical errors and typos![/quote]

Your Sniper Dude™ has a flashlight on his rifle… No wonder they saw the glare. Love the arms btw.

The general idea behind scopes giving accuracy is that the target looks closer. How this translates is based on genre.
In an FPS you can have rifle sway. So you see the target but it still requires player skill.
In a roguelike you need a stat boost. Generally accuracy. Or a seperate % to hit bonus.

If you factor in comfort/ stability then it could work as a seperate boost.
Eg.
((CTH without scope+Bonus for scope)÷stability/standing/crouching/prone/injuries/fuckyou!rng/skill level/stress)
((15% chance+50%)x80%)
=52% CTH
A great bonus but still a poor chance.
That x80% should be even lower with low strength or injuries or skills or something. I have never shot a gun but I assume sway is very bad for someone who has never shot.
Now try with higher skill and laying down in perfect conditions.
(((40% + 50%)x95%)
85% CTH
A great long range chance for some random English guy who practiced shooting for a month and picked up a Barrett M82.

This stat boost shouldn’t go to a jittery person though. You don’t hear about active snipers with Parkinsons.

I think if cleaning kits were added the Kalashnikov weapons wouldnt require much maintenance

Much or any? I heard a story of a soldier tripping over one stuck in a mud puddle, picking it up and firing it. Not sure if true, but RUSSIA!

[AerialK7]

Ive heard stories of people jamming bacon into the firing mechanism and it still firing

[TheRealTenman]

Ive heard stories of people jamming bacon into the firing mechanism and it still firing

But that was because the bacon acts as lubricant right?

Man I hope that one is true…We need more uses for bacon.

[AerialK7]

goddamnit im making a thread about this in general discussion

[Zordelraak]

Difference between AK-47 and M16
AK-47: need dirt in order to be of use, not very good accuracy, high stopping power, quite cheap comparing to other guns, MADE IN MOTHER RUSSIA (USSR), author (Kalashnikov) wasn’t paid (nearly) for creating this weapon, made on base of SKS and AS-44.
M16: need maintance or will be useless, fair accuracy, decent RoF, fair price, MADE IN U.S.A, author was paid for creating this weapon, made on base of AR-10.

[grisamentum]

You want extreme sniping (one kilometer)? 7.62x51mm (.308) would barely do the trick unless you’re an expert marksman and making that more rare than it already is seems silly. .308 is a pretty common civilian round. Introducing .338 Lapua Magnum seems like heavy overkill for a game like this but that’d do.

I had thought about bringing up the topic of that Lapua Magnum .338 round. It doesn’t seem like overkill, since we do get some pretty huge enemies that would warrant it - like hulks and wyrms.

More importantly, the game already has some relatively obscure cartridges, like 10mm Auto, which is not really widely used, or the .22 CB, which is virtually useless. By contrast, the .338 has seen a lot of recent military use, particularly in Afghanistan.

Also, we don’t have a .50 round that I’ve seen (maybe there is one?), so that might be an option as well.

I have run across rail gun rounds before, but never found a rail gun.

[Hyena_Grin]

I had a friend find a rail gun. I imagine you need to find them in science laboratories.

I think you might be able to build them too, with high enough mechanics. Not sure though.

I don’t think the game will ever allow firing one kilometer. If we’re lucky we will be able to fire about two times farther than the current view distance. That’s more like 300 meters (rough guess). For that purpose a 7.62x51mm round is perfectly reasonable. And I’d argue that if you’re shooting at zombies, even at much longer distances, you’re mostly hitting soft targets. It’s not like you need to worry about body armor and the like for the vast majority of zombies.

[Slax]

More importantly, the game already has some relatively obscure cartridges, like 10mm Auto, which is not really widely used, or the .22 CB, which is virtually useless.

10mm is used by various police forces (at least SWAT, I think), .40S&W is becoming a somewhat popular middle ground between 9mm and .45ACP and .22 CB is generally used for varmint hunting. Rats, mice… and in this case, squirrels.
Plus, the game’s set in the future! Who knows, who knows.

[grisamentum]

[quote=“grisamentum, post:36, topic:1020”]More importantly, the game already has some relatively obscure cartridges, like 10mm Auto, which is not really widely used, or the .22 CB, which is virtually useless.

10mm is used by various police forces (at least SWAT, I think), .40S&W is becoming a somewhat popular middle ground between 9mm and .45ACP and .22 CB is generally used for varmint hunting. Rats, mice… and in this case, squirrels.
Plus, the game’s set in the future! Who knows, who knows.[/quote]

Yeah, I think .40 S&W is a far more popular cartridge in the same caliber. The 10mm Auto is just not as widely used.

.22 CB is sometimes used for varmint hunting, sure, but I guess in game terms I would almost always take the bullets apart. If I need to kill a squirrel I can’t imagine wasting lead on it. I’d use a wood arrow or throw a rock or just chase it down with a bat.

[Slax]

.22 CB is alright for target practice. You do get a lot of shooting in before your target goes down.