I think we might be able to get DURABLE_MELEE on the tech oriented bow, since the frame of the weapon doesn’t need to have any flex in it. It’s essentially solid metal, with the power unit mounted around the middle of the weapon. The flex-staff bows would definitely be fairly fragile though.
Actually, what exactly constitutes DURABLE_MELEE? Does it just mean something that’s intended to survive repeated bashing, like a machete or claymore, or does it mean something that’s truly meant to be nearly indestructible?
The “Durable_Melee” flag multiplies the item’s durability factor by 4. The “Unbreakable_Melee” makes it unbreakable.
A weapon’s base durability depends on its material components; if it is made of multiple materials it will always take the tougher one. Plastic being the weakest (2) and superalloy/diamond being the strongest (100).
Glass will always shatter upon hitting something with it/hitting it with something; no matter what other materials are there.
[quote=“Natures Witness, post:22, topic:6635”]I think we might be able to get DURABLE_MELEE on the tech oriented bow, since the frame of the weapon doesn’t need to have any flex in it. It’s essentially solid metal, with the power unit mounted around the middle of the weapon. The flex-staff bows would definitely be fairly fragile though.
Actually, what exactly constitutes DURABLE_MELEE? Does it just mean something that’s intended to survive repeated bashing, like a machete or claymore, or does it mean something that’s truly meant to be nearly indestructible?[/quote]
DURABLE is for things that are meant to take punishment. It’s not limited to weapons. Swords have it, but so does the atomic coffeemaker. DURABLE and a strong material is practically unbreakable.
UNBREAKABLE–guaranteed immune to damage–is currently only for bionic weapons like the monoblade or claws.
I feel like bow weapons should have a strength setting, that is to say, the tension that the bowstring is set at when found or made. This means that you’ll need to restring a bow in order to get the maximum benefit of your strength in the pull or if you find one that is too strong for your character to pull. That way the bow will have an internal damage model consistent with how strong the bow is relative to the strength of an appropriate owner.
I used to know a guy who had his bow strung at 110 lbs. That thing was… well, really freakin’ loud, actually but it was certainly quite powerful.
It should be noted that arrows are much heavier than bullets and don’t deform as easily. A high-powered bow could certainly kill someone in composite armor even if the arrow is incapable of penetrating said armor. The blunt impact force of the arrow would probably kill a target outright if it’s in a vital area. While not necessarily ballistic, there’s a lot more force behind an arrow in a modern bow than you might believe, especially one strung for a strong individual
Another CSB: I used to play Shadowrun and I made a troll physical adept. He had a compound bow that fired diamond plasma coated arrows out of a huge custom made bow. Trolls in Shadowrun could get over double the strength score and when applied to a bow, it made a weapon that had attack power that rivaled that of anti-vehicle assault cannon or anti-materiel rifle. Dikote weapons could ignore hardened armor so he could take out a corp cop in an armored vehicle from over a hundred yards away.
[quote=“Hague, post:27, topic:6635”]I feel like bow weapons should have a strength setting, that is to say, the tension that the bowstring is set at when found or made. This means that you’ll need to restring a bow in order to get the maximum benefit of your strength in the pull or if you find one that is too strong for your character to pull. That way the bow will have an internal damage model consistent with how strong the bow is relative to the strength of an appropriate owner.
I used to know a guy who had his bow strung at 110 lbs. That thing was… well, really freakin’ loud, actually but it was certainly quite powerful.
It should be noted that arrows are much heavier than bullets and don’t deform as easily. A high-powered bow could certainly kill someone in composite armor even if the arrow is incapable of penetrating said armor. The blunt impact force of the arrow would probably kill a target outright if it’s in a vital area. While not necessarily ballistic, there’s a lot more force behind an arrow in a modern bow than you might believe, especially one strung for a strong individual
Another CSB: I used to play Shadowrun and I made a troll physical adept. He had a compound bow that fired diamond plasma coated arrows out of a huge custom made bow. Trolls in Shadowrun could get over double the strength score and when applied to a bow, it made a weapon that had attack power that rivaled that of anti-vehicle assault cannon or anti-materiel rifle. Dikote weapons could ignore hardened armor so he could take out a corp cop in an armored vehicle from over a hundred yards away.[/quote]
Re bows being strung to require minimal strength: already in.
Although what Hague was saying was that you should be able to re-string a bow to a draw weight fitting your strength. Though I’d presume there’d be an upper limit to the draw weight of each bow. Wood can only take so much stress before it snaps.
Re-stringing the bow for varying draw weights should be doable, though it will complicate things somewhat. I can make a pair of custom iuse menus, one that will allow you to convert the unstrung BowStaff into one of several bow items with varying draw weights and stats, and another menu that converts the various bows back to the BowStaff item.
This would probably be a functionality unique to the BowStaff however; doing this for all bows would require an absurd amount of redundant items and iuse commands, and wouldn’t make sense for most bows anyway.
One question for everybody; what relative tech level should the BowStaff be? We can have it be just made from wood for a relatively easy to craft, but not super strong item, or we could have a much fancier, composite space-age material with shape memory properties item that would be pretty resilient, but would be pretty complex to craft if it could be crafted at all.
I’m not sure about the idea of having blades attached to an otherwise normal bow; I just can’t quite picture how it would work. The Bowt’leth works mainly because it isn’t a bow in the normal sense; the weapon is completely rigid and all the tension of the string is generated by the kinetic battery pulling back on the string itself.
[quote=“Natures Witness, post:13, topic:6635”]The quarterstaff thing gives me an idea. Maybe we can have a lower grade version of this that’s basically just a single-piece wood bow, but heavy duty enough that when it’s unstrung can be used as a quarterstaff?
The lab book thing gives me another idea; while it doesn’t make a lot of sense for a lab to be working on a bow like this, it would be at least somewhat reasonable if they were working on something similar to the kinetic power assembly that makes this bow work, but for some other application. Then our survivor comes along, finds it, and thinks "I don’t really need this space-age shock absorber assembly for my car, but I bet I could do something really cool with it if I used my noggin and my expertise in black smithing and archery.
We’d just need some way to link finding the thing and the characters’ skill levels in a way that allows you to learn the correct recipe. Maybe this could be combined with some other survivor-esque inventions that use the central item (which for now I’ll call a kinetic battery) in different ways.
For example, we have a lab that was working on this kinetic battery project, our survivor wanders in, and finds their prototype. He’s not quite sure what the thing is, but it does look interesting. Now here’s where things get interesting. The device itself gives you the option to study it, just like a book. While it doesn’t train any skills, it does have a chance to teach recipes, depending on what skills you have. If you have high enough ratings in archery and mechanical, you can have a “Eureka!” Moment and learn how to make the Bowt’leth. The instructions weren’t written on the thing; your characters’ thoughtful study of the item allowed them to come up with the design by themself. Now let’s say your character is more knowledgable in melee combat. With enough skill in melee, bashing, and mechanical, they’ll discover the recipe for the “kinetic sledge” a melee weapon that uses the kinetic battery’s properties to store energy and then release it in a single blow that will send a hulk flying like a baseball at Yankee Stadium.
This would basically be a whole new approach to item crafting in Cata. Not every build-able item was invented by someone else; with enough knowledge, and the right inspiration, our scrappy survivors are more than capable of inventing their own crazy contraptions.[/quote]
I say crafted from a space age material. I mean plain old wood and metal wouldn’t do both as bow and as a club (as you want the bow to be flexible, but the club to be rigid), your bow would break the first time you actually land a square hit on something or it wouldn’t be elastic enough to function as a proper bow.
I mean if they were possible with mundane materials we would have at attempts at building this type of thing inside weapon museums and collections (like we have with swordguns).
Well, such a thing is possible when you consider weapons like the monomolecular blade. You get a fine enough edge and it begins to matter less and less how sturdy your weapon really is.
Speaking of which, the monomolecular blade CBM is it like the Dragon’s Tooth sword from Deus Ex, a retracting blade of self-arranging nanites that form a monomolecular blade or is it a retracting conventional blade with a monomolecular edge, like a buckytube welded to the edge of a blade?
I feel that, traditionally, bows were generally used communally or against small game that wouldn’t fight back. In group engagements, you generally have time enough to drop your bow and draw a dagger, which should probably be more effective than the boat’leth unless your dagger is pathetic or you have absolutely no time at all. And opponents that do not fight back leave the issue a moot point. To look at historical hybrids between melee and ranged combat you are probably looking at spears and javelins. Africa would be a likely location due to the large predators…
Crossbows might be a better choice, the handle can be rigid and there is little reason aside from heft and balance not to stick a bayonet or spear on it. … Or just build a spear and stick a crossbow on the handle to lob a bolt at something before the range closes.
I believe that the monomolecular blade is a bow with a monomolecular string… And bionic claws should probably be self-repairing rather than immune to damage…
[quote=“Hague, post:34, topic:6635”]Well, such a thing is possible when you consider weapons like the monomolecular blade. You get a fine enough edge and it begins to matter less and less how sturdy your weapon really is.
Speaking of which, the monomolecular blade CBM is it like the Dragon’s Tooth sword from Deus Ex, a retracting blade of self-arranging nanites that form a monomolecular blade or is it a retracting conventional blade with a monomolecular edge, like a buckytube welded to the edge of a blade?[/quote]
Superalloy. Rare and NOT something the player can create. The bow should be made of it, and the CBM weapons are.
It would have to be a good material to be used in melee combat. That was mentioned previously. You need a material that is somehow both flexible and strong enough to operate as a bow, but also rigid enough to be used as a sword.
The design of the commando warbow is based on the fact that it DOESN’T flex at all. The bowstring is directly connected to the kinetic battery, which pulls back on the string from both ends of the bow, providing the power for the shot. That’s where the high-tech part of this comes from, and why crafting it with only normal parts isn’t really possible. The kinetic battery is something that the character is going to have to find in a lab, they can probably fabricate the rest of the parts on their own.
On further thought, I might have an idea for a slightly better system. The body of the weapon is in three sections; the central piece with the handles and arrow rest, and two end pieces that are hinged to the main body. The power assembly is connected to the hinges; pulling back the string causes the end pieces to hinge toward you, soaring the kinetic energy in the pivot points, and letting the string go releases it. In melee mode, the hinges lock in place so the ends don’t go flapping around.
Does this sound more reasonable then the entire cable retracting when you pull it.
Also, quick question. While I recognize players can’t make superalloy, can they craft with it at all? For example, could they take a superalloy armor sheet and cut the parts for the bow out of it, or would that require a plasma torch? Come to think of it, can we give the characters a plasma torch for super high-end metalworking?
