Some Thoughts on Character Creation

kevin.granade · 2013-09-25T20:49:22.000Z

For sure shadowrun is worse, but I never felt the DnD system was something to aspire to in the balance arena… unless you’re talking about 4th edition, in which case it achieved it at the cost of MASSIVELY limiting choice.

An0n3 · 2013-09-25T20:53:00.000Z

Let’s not get into edition wars. I was just trying to make a rough analogy to some other character examples.

While we’re being RPG grognards for a second: steal the Traveller character creation process. Love that.

KA101 · 2013-09-25T22:23:28.000Z

Opinion:
I don’t buy professions as it stands: there’s just nothing there that justifies taking the stat hit. Only skill I buy is one point in Dodge. Rest of it is stats and traits.

Being forcibly docked points that I’d spend on genuinely useful things, in order to force me into buying an ultimately-indistinguishable* profession, is something that I would resent. Please don’t do that. Thanks.

*There is nothing a profession gives that the character cannot, in time, obtain elsewhere. Stats and traits are far tougher, and some such as MA or Parkour are chargen-only.

An0n3 · 2013-09-25T23:08:41.000Z

[quote=“KA101, post:23, topic:3104”]Opinion:
I don’t buy professions as it stands: there’s just nothing there that justifies taking the stat hit. Only skill I buy is one point in Dodge. Rest of it is stats and traits.

Being forcibly docked points that I’d spend on genuinely useful things, in order to force me into buying an ultimately-indistinguishable* profession, is something that I would resent. Please don’t do that. Thanks.

*There is nothing a profession gives that the character cannot, in time, obtain elsewhere. Stats and traits are far tougher, and some such as MA or Parkour are chargen-only.[/quote]

…and that approach is a great example of what I’m talking about. You’re thinking of it as having points taken away from you and being forced to spend them on other things. You COULD look at it as being GIVEN points to spend on EXTRA things, but because there’s the potential that you could be spending those points on minmaxing instead of rounding yourself out, you feel like you’re having something taken away from you.

KA101 · 2013-09-26T03:19:38.000Z

I’m content with my character, thanks. Sorry you don’t seem to like it.

And I’ll thank you for not telling me how to think.

An0n3 · 2013-09-26T13:16:28.000Z

I’m not telling you how to think I’m quoting you directly.

I say

You're thinking of it as having points taken away from you and being forced to spend them on other things.

Because you said

Being forcibly docked points that I'd spend on genuinely useful things, in order to force me into buying

Hyena_Grin · 2013-09-26T17:49:07.000Z

Part of the problem is there’s a lot more options than there are stat points available by default. You can raise the number you start with to allow you to take more things that are maybe not as beneficial longterm.

People would also be more willing to take other things if attributes were capable of being raised naturally. I won’t attempt to describe a system where such a thing is possible. But suffice to say. Given the option between Things You Can Change and Things You Are Stuck With, most people will invest CG points mostly in the Things You Are Stuck With. It’s just common sense. If you have ten bucks to last you a month, and you have to choose between buying a ten dollar fishing rod or ten dollars worth of fish… it’s kind of a no-brainer.

Obviously splitting up your CG points so that they must be spent in different areas is an option, but that’s a bit hackish.

KA101 · 2013-09-26T23:20:08.000Z

[quote=“An0n3, post:26, topic:3104”]I’m not telling you how to think I’m quoting you directly.

I say

You're thinking of it as having points taken away from you and being forced to spend them on other things.

Because you said

Being forcibly docked points that I'd spend on genuinely useful things, in order to force me into buying

[/quote]

The OP presumed that profession-points would come along with a deduction in useful-points.

As for telling me how to think:

You COULD look at it as being GIVEN points to spend on EXTRA things

Since the OP stipulated taking points, the profession-points are not a gift.

And I’ll again thank you for not telling me how to think.

An0n3 · 2013-09-26T23:38:15.000Z

I appreciate your thanks and you are very welcome.

FunsizeNinja123 · 2013-09-27T00:14:28.000Z

Sorry for derailing a bit, but will stealth have its own skill?

One-Eyed_Jack · 2013-09-27T04:38:16.000Z

I said

Nevertheless, I have a suggestion: new characters have points, [b]maybe[/b] fewer than currently, to spend on stats and traits

(bold mine) which is neither a stipulation nor a presumption. I also clarified in my next post that I only included that apposition because I assumed that the current power balance (which includes, presumably, the proposition that at least some characters choose professions) is desirable, which I don’t personally care about.

None of this really matters, though. My problem with the status quo is that I feel torn between choosing strong characters and choosing characters that play differently at the beginning. It has nothing to do with how many points are available on either type of trait, which can be adjusted in the debug menu.