Random Pills!

[StopSignal]

Found this while lurking:

Needful things (simple additions to improve the game)

3. A system that allows for re-randomization of items every time you play. (Is this implemented already?) Just the way e.g. Scrolls and Potions are handled in every other roguelike. This could go hand in hand with an extended flora, mutagens, mushrooms and possibly even books.

Now, why we don´t have this? We have something kiiiinda like this with mutagens, but what about random pills, without label, that you have to take to know what they are, ala Binding Of Isaac?

I´d love that. We could make a big gameplay thing with this, i think.

[system]

You could apply it to mutagens and various forms of mutated vegetation too, and add in some system for experimenting with them without instantly killing you if you have appropriate skill levels.

Or you could eat it I guess. Does that mutated poppy contain cyanide? SCIENCE!

[KA101]

We don’t have randomized item appearances because at least this dev despises nethack-style item ID. It encourages metagaming, promotes item wastage (whether through disuse or use for no beneficial effect), and doesn’t really add much value to the game, IMO.

Seriously, item ID is one of the reasons I don’t bother with most roguelikes. (Permadeath is the other.)

[Snaaty]

I believe the person quoted in the first post would be me, but nvm.

We don't have randomized item appearances because at least this dev despises nethack-style item ID. It encourages metagaming, promotes item wastage (whether through disuse or use for no beneficial effect), and doesn't really add much value to the game, IMO.

This is totally understandable, especially as other roguelikes somehow need the identification mini-game going on to reinforce the gradual increase of possibilities at the players hands.
Generally, it is a little strange, that the player in C:DDA can just identify everything on first sight. Even that 8.2 liter V2 engine car alternator (just random words here). Of course making it so that everything has to be identified befor eit can be used would add unneccessary bloat.

The moment re-randomization becomes very useful is when you have an assortment of different items of the same type.
In C:DDA those could be serums, mushrooms or perhaps pills. A “cross-game” learning is probably never wanted, as you don’t want players to remember; “oh this green mushroom transformed me into superman last time”.
So, if we want to extend the game in that area (specifically thinking of mushrooms here) I believe we must implement some re-randomization.
As long as it stays only a “niche”-feature, I believe there will be very little of what you fear might happen.

I assume the player can now identify most pills because they’re still in their original packaging.
Re randomization could work here in the form of “pills without packaging”, you only see their shape and colour. The effects could be the same as pills that are already in the game.

[Sanarr]

It would be a good addition, IMO. Some unknown parts, pills and other things are just mean to be in post apoc world - it could add some mistery and make player more cautios towards new items.

And I think that overall concept of “ID on sight” should be reconsidered. How would char know contents of pill box with damaged label? Or if he is illiterate? Or in darkness? There might be some other circumstances why he shouldnt.

[KA101]

You can tell me that you don’t want to know what that item is all you like. I don’t care to see metagamey item-ID in DDA. The most we’ll do is obfuscate information for folks w/o skill relevant to the item, and that required a bit of work for mushrooms.

No means no.

[Khrysanth]

To chime in with my own two cents:

Cataclysm takes place in an age of Brand Names, Trademarks and Marketing. Sound familiar? That’s how our world works. If I were to come across “unlabeled” drugs in our world or Cata’s, I would never touch them.

Purely randomised elements like this actually eliminate all influence of player skill, experience and knowledge - It’s artificial difficulty. When you die from things like this, there is nothing to learn from it - You didn’t die from making a mistake, overreaching or anything of the sort. You just died because, “Fuck you,” said the RNG.

[pingpong]

I’d say they overwhelmingly increase the skill involved. To know immediately if something is useful or not is pretty piss easy. If we use Nethack as comparison, I’ve poured over 200-cost scrolls, potions, etc pages so I could figure if it was a good gamble or not.

I’d definitely be in favor of “generic” text, like “a car engine” if your mechanics is 0-2, but at higher levels you can see the real identity.

If we’re linking to crafting, I’m still butthurt over being able to make arrowheads, but can’t figure out they go on arrows. If anything, some things should be the opposite, that I know what goes into them, but can’t figure out how to make what goes into them i.e. arrows should come before arrowheads/fletching, as I can guarantee you even if we took an amnesiac like we have with our hero they’d immediately know arrowheads go on arrows.

[BeigeSand]

[quote=“pingpong, post:8, topic:7148”]I’d say they overwhelmingly increase the skill involved. To know immediately if something is useful or not is pretty piss easy. If we use Nethack as comparison, I’ve poured over 200-cost scrolls, potions, etc pages so I could figure if it was a good gamble or not.

I’d definitely be in favor of “generic” text, like “a car engine” if your mechanics is 0-2, but at higher levels you can see the real identity.

If we’re linking to crafting, I’m still butthurt over being able to make arrowheads, but can’t figure out they go on arrows. If anything, some things should be the opposite, that I know what goes into them, but can’t figure out how to make what goes into them i.e. arrows should come before arrowheads/fletching, as I can guarantee you even if we took an amnesiac like we have with our hero they’d immediately know arrowheads go on arrows.[/quote]

It really is non-sensical for your basic wooden arrow to be impossible to craft without a book. As I think with a little experimentation, any reasonable human being would be able to figure out an arrow. But NO. I don’t think forcing the player into a crap-shoot on whether or not this random pill/item makes their teeth explode seems like a smart design decision.

[KA101]

Arrows have been fixed.