Possible way of reworking morale?

[quote=“Iosyn, post:20, topic:1091”]Yeah, it would really need to be fleshed out-- but if it was, and then you took the schizo trait…
Holy fuck. Shit gets worse.

Also that Call of Cthulhu game is to date the only game (other than amnesia the dark descent) That has actually manage to scare the living shit out of me.

You see a dream. Armed people (with nasty axes and rusty, bloodied cleavers) are coming up the stairs. You wake up coughing and hear battering at the door. You slide the lock shut quickly, but it’s hanging by a few screws. it won’t last long. You run into the next room, lock latches on those doors and slide furniture behind them before running to the next. You reach a window as they follow close behind and try to push it open, but it’s a trial. You finally get it open and some guy with a shotgun bursts through and starts taking potshots. It doesn’t even stop there. You have to avoid them and hide like a little bitch, since you don’t even have weapons.
Another good one is anything on a ship. If you could condense terror into a compact disc, it would bear the name Call of Cthulhu.[/quote]

Say hello to my little friend: https://github.com/TheDarklingWolf/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/139

Pleasant. (Not really.)

I think I’ll pass; sanity effects were interesting in Eternal Darkness, but they had a mechanic for minimizing them should the player prefer to do so.

People can develop abnormal behaviors and maladaptive thought patterns that makes it increasingly difficult to reintegrate into society, but the idea of a full-blown case of psychosis resulting from stress, that’s just not going to happen. ‘Sanity’ isn’t really something that can be represented very well with a meter. ‘Insanity’ isn’t even a good word. That said, stress and exhaustion and emotional trauma can all cause profound acute hallucinogenic episodes. It’s rare but it does happen. The key is that they are isolated events; they are the result of acute stress and mental/emotional strain. It also differs from panic attacks and ‘hysteria’ which can also result from acute stress and exhaustion.

What I am trying to say here, is that a sanity ‘system’ just wouldn’t make a lot of sense. It isn’t something that you wear down and build up, per se. A lot of the conditions we ascribe to ‘insanity’ are genetic or at least biological in nature, not a result of the patient’s environment as such. Environments create abnormal behavior, and can trigger dormant psychosis, but you can’t create full-blown psychosis from a healthy brain. I guess from a gameplay point of view it might be interesting, but I don’t think we really need a whole new system to represent the kinds of psychotic episodes that you might expect to see from time to time in a horrible, lonely apocalyptic scenario.

Simply being attacked and badly injured (in a lot of pain) by zombies might result in a Paranoia effect. From time to time when your view is uncovering fog of war, you will briefly (for one turn) see random enemies. Basically you start to see zombies in every nook and cranny, shadows look like monsters, etc. You’re afraid, and your brain is feeding that fear. Certain drugs make this more likely, and some may rarely cause paranoia randomly and without cause (such as marijuana).

Too many zombies in close proximity might result in a Panic effect. This is more likely to occur when very tired, or already badly hurt, etc. When panicked you gain increased movement and attack speed, but start screaming, which obviously generates noise. Impact of pain on performance is reduced, but your accuracy with guns and melee goes down. Vision is reduced and hearing is reduced as you go into a hyperfocused, adrenaline-fueled state. Your sleep debt (whatever numeric stat is used to keep track of tiredness) increases more quickly while the panic is in effect. You don’t have to flee, but the longer you remain panicked, the worse the negative effects get (to some maximum). Panic ends when no enemies are seen or heard for some time (if you happen to become panicked and paranoid at the same time, this could mean having to hide in a closet until you calm down). Caffeine and cocaine make panic a bit more likely to occur.

Given a perfect storm of paranoia and panic over an extended period, particularly with the influence of drugs, can result in a Hysteria effect. Not exactly a scientific term, but it is the kind of thing that makes grown men cower under beds. This rare effect makes you shake uncontrollably, and you cannot move unless you can currently see or hear an enemy. The sight of an enemy will cause your character to scream, which generates noise. In most ways this is very much like Panic, just with added situational paralysis thrown in, and it comes with a heavy negative mood modifier that persists for some time after the event. It ends after a longer period than required to end a panic state.

If you accumulate too many of these events (Hysteria in particular is bad), you are increasingly likely to develop PTSD. PTSD is… permanent, but manageable with anxiety medications. PTSD simply makes it more likely that all three of these events will occur, and you will begin to have horrible nightmares that wake you up from time to time, occasionally with a zombie-drawing scream.

… doesn’t that all sound lovely

Did not read most of the thread, please forgive me if I repeat something:

One thing that should really raise the morale is finding good stuff! Imagine you are a survivor that had to struggle for food and water the last few days and was badly hurt. After a rainy trip he discovers a cozy LMOE-shelter with LOTS of food, weapons + ammo and other stuff!

He thought himself dead and found this sanctuary. I don’t know about you but I would fall on my knees and thank god for finding so much food and a safe place to stay in the apocalypse!

Same goes with a sick character that finds some medicine!

The devs can put a cooldown on this event. Like once a month the character can achieve a morale boost by finding good stuff/locations/vehicles!

[quote=“Hyena Grin, post:23, topic:1091”]People can develop abnormal behaviors and maladaptive thought patterns that makes it increasingly difficult to reintegrate into society, but the idea of a full-blown case of psychosis resulting from stress, that’s just not going to happen. ‘Sanity’ isn’t really something that can be represented very well with a meter. ‘Insanity’ isn’t even a good word. That said, stress and exhaustion and emotional trauma can all cause profound acute hallucinogenic episodes. It’s rare but it does happen. The key is that they are isolated events; they are the result of acute stress and mental/emotional strain. It also differs from panic attacks and ‘hysteria’ which can also result from acute stress and exhaustion.

What I am trying to say here, is that a sanity ‘system’ just wouldn’t make a lot of sense. It isn’t something that you wear down and build up, per se. A lot of the conditions we ascribe to ‘insanity’ are genetic or at least biological in nature, not a result of the patient’s environment as such. Environments create abnormal behavior, and can trigger dormant psychosis, but you can’t create full-blown psychosis from a healthy brain. I guess from a gameplay point of view it might be interesting, but I don’t think we really need a whole new system to represent the kinds of psychotic episodes that you might expect to see from time to time in a horrible, lonely apocalyptic scenario.

Simply being attacked and badly injured (in a lot of pain) by zombies might result in a Paranoia effect. From time to time when your view is uncovering fog of war, you will briefly (for one turn) see random enemies. Basically you start to see zombies in every nook and cranny, shadows look like monsters, etc. You’re afraid, and your brain is feeding that fear. Certain drugs make this more likely, and some may rarely cause paranoia randomly and without cause (such as marijuana).

Too many zombies in close proximity might result in a Panic effect. This is more likely to occur when very tired, or already badly hurt, etc. When panicked you gain increased movement and attack speed, but start screaming, which obviously generates noise. Impact of pain on performance is reduced, but your accuracy with guns and melee goes down. Vision is reduced and hearing is reduced as you go into a hyperfocused, adrenaline-fueled state. Your sleep debt (whatever numeric stat is used to keep track of tiredness) increases more quickly while the panic is in effect. You don’t have to flee, but the longer you remain panicked, the worse the negative effects get (to some maximum). Panic ends when no enemies are seen or heard for some time (if you happen to become panicked and paranoid at the same time, this could mean having to hide in a closet until you calm down). Caffeine and cocaine make panic a bit more likely to occur.

Given a perfect storm of paranoia and panic over an extended period, particularly with the influence of drugs, can result in a Hysteria effect. Not exactly a scientific term, but it is the kind of thing that makes grown men cower under beds. This rare effect makes you shake uncontrollably, and you cannot move unless you can currently see or hear an enemy. The sight of an enemy will cause your character to scream, which generates noise. In most ways this is very much like Panic, just with added situational paralysis thrown in, and it comes with a heavy negative mood modifier that persists for some time after the event. It ends after a longer period than required to end a panic state.

If you accumulate too many of these events (Hysteria in particular is bad), you are increasingly likely to develop PTSD. PTSD is… permanent, but manageable with anxiety medications. PTSD simply makes it more likely that all three of these events will occur, and you will begin to have horrible nightmares that wake you up from time to time, occasionally with a zombie-drawing scream.

… doesn’t that all sound lovely[/quote]

Yes, that sounds positively wonderful <3 <3 <3

We were planning on having vision be untrustworthy at the edges, but having certain things appear as monsters rather than “unknown” is an amazing idea.

Tracking a fear or stress level is also in the cards. Though I was planning on having the fear evoked by a given monster take a large hit when you’re able to kill one, so eventually this would fade into the background, unless one were to be seriously hurt by a given monster, which would have a chance of increasing fear of that monster type again. This is part of a system I’ve been planning where the player’s likes, dislikes, and fears are semi-randomly initialized at game start, and then influenced throughout the game.

I’d like to have an option to roll up phobia’s, not for any point value but for the fear factor.

roll up a phobia for spiders: suddenly your character is paralyzed with fear at the sight of the doberman sized black widow only 20 yards away.

after killing 2 or 3 your character is no longer overly fearful of them but any more than 1 or 2 at a time and you can start to panic. you know how to handle yourself against one, maybe two but any more and it’s seriously stressful.

spiders just became death!

Yeah… I’d be seriously screwed in this apocalypse. No way I could handle those spiders in melee without crying and shitting myself.

Or would I just have an extra dodge bonus from sheer desperation not to be touched? :stuck_out_tongue:

I scream at seeing a money spider from as far away as possible.

I would die as soon as I got to the shelter, because I always spawn near a spiders nest.

[quote=“Benedict, post:27, topic:1091”]Yeah… I’d be seriously screwed in this apocalypse. No way I could handle those spiders in melee without crying and shitting myself.

Or would I just have an extra dodge bonus from sheer desperation not to be touched? :P[/quote]

Actually I think you’d be fine, because once you know there are giant spiders around, you’d keep a paranoid scan for them going at all times, and upon seeing one, simply go the other way. Considering how dangerous they are, this sounds like a rather good way to proceed.

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:29, topic:1091”][quote=“Benedict, post:27, topic:1091”]Yeah… I’d be seriously screwed in this apocalypse. No way I could handle those spiders in melee without crying and shitting myself.

Or would I just have an extra dodge bonus from sheer desperation not to be touched? :P[/quote]

Actually I think you’d be fine, because once you know there are giant spiders around, you’d keep a paranoid scan for them going at all times, and upon seeing one, simply go the other way. Considering how dangerous they are, this sounds like a rather good way to proceed.[/quote]

Or the more likely option, run away like a baby and cry in a corner for a few hours.

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:29, topic:1091”][quote=“Benedict, post:27, topic:1091”]Yeah… I’d be seriously screwed in this apocalypse. No way I could handle those spiders in melee without crying and shitting myself.

Or would I just have an extra dodge bonus from sheer desperation not to be touched? :P[/quote]

Actually I think you’d be fine, because once you know there are giant spiders around, you’d keep a paranoid scan for them going at all times, and upon seeing one, simply go the other way. Considering how dangerous they are, this sounds like a rather good way to proceed.[/quote]

Gotta sleep at some point… :frowning:

Solid walls/doors/lava rift ought to take care of that. (Certainly if the lava cooks the PC it ought to cook any other critter that happens by…)

An idea for a long term “morale” system through stress angle.

There could be two values, “Tension” a short term one which would show how relaxed or tense the character is and “Stress” a long term one, which shows how stressed you are. Tension works like current morale system: a balance of negative and positive modifiers, but far more prevelant. The higher your current tension is , the bigger bonuses you will receive to your stats (as in adrenaline rush) and penalities to effectivness of more delicate tasks, like crafting, studying, picklocking and the like. And while your relaxation is high, you will actualy receive bonus to tasks like these. And more importantly, Stress value would slowly in/decrease depending how high tension/relaxation is (zero/balanced tension is still a stress reliever). The higher is stress the more severe are penalities caused by it.

Tension can be modified by all current morale modifying actions/situations in game, but with addition to these:

  • Sight of enemies, depending on their closeness to PC, their number and danger posed/perceived (regular Z vs hulk). A short lived but severe tension source.
  • pressence of unknown creatures ? (was it a bear or a squirell?)
  • Being chased/hunted by enemies. In same vein as the first one.
  • Fighting in general.

Possible stress penalities could include:

  • skill learning
    *disease resistance
    *healing rate
    *gaining traits like insomnia, heavy sleeper, chemical disbalance and more

Thoughts? Criticism?

All of this talk of reducing stats, speed, XP gain or even fatiguing you because you have access to an MP3 player or a chocolate bar just sounds tedious.

If it’s added, I hope it’s in the options menu.