Possible method to balance CBMs?

[redxlaser15]

Hmm, that makes me think of an idea that you might perhaps need to repair broken or damage bionics sometimes. If they are messed up too much or for too long then they can eventually become unrepairable and give potentially huge detrimental effects.
That makes a lot of realism sense to me.

[Tamior]

One way of looking at it. Kevin was more on the lines of saying “Having a reason to not install CBMs at all and instead go un-augmented.”

Having any CBM (other than power storage) prevents crossing mutation threshold.
Being post-threshold prevents installation of any CBM.
Crude, but gets the job done.
To make it more gradual: every installed CBM makes negative mutations more and more likely.
Having non-starting mutation makes installing CBM’s harder and harder.

[Admiral-Wily]

That could work and a explanation why could be that CBMs are connected to your nervous system and functions/are activated from commands that the brain issues via a understanding of how the human brain is mapped and mutations alter it to a point where they are no longer compatible.

[Tamior]

Exactly.
CBM’s are made for humans, so the less human you are, the harder they are to install.
Mutations try to adapt your flesh, but the less connected you are to your flesh, the less likely those adaptations are to be useful.

[redxlaser15]

I don’t like that idea, personally. Then I can’t become a cybertree anymore. Becoming a cybertree is my favorite way to do things if so possible.
I can understand that way of thinking, but completely blocking off that as an option seems excessive unless you have a large amount of CBMs. If it’s just a few, I see no reason why you can’t have both.

Having a system like that but no so aggressive I’d like.
CBMs are made for humans, so you can install them on a mutant, but depending on mutations you might start running into incompatibilities which reduce the effectiveness of that CBM or maybe the mutations. With possible malfunctions as well.
You might also be able to get certain CBMs or mutations that reduce compatibility issues.
This way, you can become a cybertree, but it still has more balance.

[Tamior]

You can become a cyber-tree with the aforementioned system, you just can’t cross the threshold.

Also, I was specifically giving an example of the system that gives you "a reason to not install CBMs at all and instead go un-augmented.”
Any system that would not penalize you noticeably for having even a single CBM would fail to achieve that goal.

[Sanehatter]

You shouldn’t be unable to mutate as a cyborg, simply because your DNA is not going to recognize there are external objects in your body and stop itself from reacting to the mutagen you just drank/injected.
But we certainly could use negative or harmful interactions between mutations and CMBs, like a toolkit becoming faulty because the survivor’s hand just became a paw/tentacle.

[Tamior]

You shouldn’t be unable to mutate as a cyborg, simply because your DNA is not going to recognize there are external objects in your body and stop itself from reacting to the mutagen you just drank/injected.

Hence the proposal to prevent mutations from going post-threshold if you have CBM, not to prevent all mutations as such.

[Sanehatter]

Threshold is an arbitrary limiter where you stop being human at your “core”. It doesn’t really work differently than normal mutations.

[Tamior]

Crossing the threshold DOES work differently than “normal” mutations.
So I’m not entirely sure what your argument is…

[Sanehatter]

In terms of game mechanics, yes. It’s still a mutation that needs others of the same type as a requirement,it shouldn’t have any way to check if the player has any installed CBMs.

[Tamior]

If it’s checking for a “critical mass” of one type of mutations, I fail to see why having completely inorganic components can’t be something that also prevents that “critical mass” from being reached.

[Sanehatter]

Because the checking is done on the genetic code itself. At least I assume it is, since breaking the threshold basically means you crossed into another species.

[Tamior]

The checking being done on the genetic code itself does not prevent it from also being restricted if the overall condition of the body is somehow sub-optimal.
Heck, the glob explicitly requires a critical amount of mass to function. Some organic mass lost to CBM’s = not enough to cross the threshold.

[Sanehatter]

Sub-optimal body conditions have no effect at all on one’s DNA, maybe if its some radiation shit, but thats another matter.
We’ve been circling around on this discussion for a bit too long tho, so I’m not dragging it any longer than this post.

[Tamior]

Sub-optimal body conditions have no effect at all on one’s DNA, maybe if its some radiation shit, but thats another matter.

When you are mutating into several different things all at once it very well may, in fact, have an effect.

And that’s on top of the fact that if something is good for game balance, it might take precedence even if it’s a tiny bit unclear lore-wise.

[redxlaser15]

Maybe you have transcended your weak human form, but your arms remain mostly human still, at least internally anyway. May be a little hard to get through that bark of yours, but since you can bleed there is probably still some muscles and bones down there. In that case, why not install a couple enhancements? Does a CBM really rely and check for genetics? And do you truly have no remains of human DNA throughout your entire body?
It would’ve harder to install CBMs when you are past the threshold, and certain ones may not work or not work properly, but you most certainly can install a few.

[Tamior]

It would’ve harder to install CBMs when you are past the threshold, and certain ones may not work or not work properly, but you most certainly can install a few.

If post-threshold body somehow largely rejects further mutations (can’t cross another threshold), it may very well reject foreign inorganic materials (CBM’s).

[redxlaser15]

Sooo, if someone has their leg shattered and has it replaced by a titanium version (my dad has that), that means that they cannot go past the threshold, right?
It’s foreign inorganic material, so, unfortunately, if your mutations don’t let you grow new limbs then if you lose one you can never get a new one.
That’s what you are saying, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Tamior]

Sooo, if someone has their leg shattered and has it replaced by a titanium version (my dad has that), that means that they cannot go past the threshold, right?

They can, they just need to remove the CBM first. Also, an external prosthesis that isn’t connected to the nerves system is not exactly a CBM to begin with.

It’s foreign inorganic material, so, unfortunately, if your mutations don’t let you grow new limbs then if you lose one you can never get a new one.
That’s what you are saying, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

In C:DDA limbs can’t really be permanently lost from damage. They always grow back. So your question is kind of meaningless in the context of C:DDA.