alphas could maybe brag about themselves randomly much like the “shouter” and “howler” mutations,generating noise but giving you a slight stackable morale boost(+5 everytime its used till +15),you should also be able to trigger it on the mutations menu
Edit:i think this fits more on the bad suggestions and horrible ideas thread
The main issues with making a character who is vainglorious or pompous is that of getting the player to RP it.
Ive added mutations “calm mind”, “tranquil mind”, “Robust Lungs”, and “Strong Lungs”
Well, until I find out how to add in other effects into the mutate_data file and have them work those wont do anything. But they will show up and do nothing :thumbup:
I tried to add all the effects into the file (and even got it to compile and run) buuut.
Still savant is countered. and thus can stay afaic.
Im happy enough with them for now. Ill need to read though the rest though.
You know, allot has been said here and elsewhere that I find myself agreeing with despite my love of mutations, most saliently:
*Mutations don’t balance against bionics
*Mutations don’t balance against each other
*Mutations don’t balance against character creation
*etc
I think I’ve discovered the heart of the problem. Mutations are–for the most part–entirely voluntary and entirely too easy to rectify. My solution.
FIRSTLY
*Exposure to certain criteria starts advancing you towards mutation, including but not limited to:
-Eating any post-cataclysm food source. Including drinking non-bottled water. Because of the way food rotting now works this means it becomes more of a problem in the late game, when players are more equipped to combat it.
-Having untreated infections, be they bacterial, parasitic or otherwise
-Radiation. On the subject I think nether critters and other irrational matter should give off a more dangerous form of esoteric radiation.
-The Environment itself should be the weakest source of mutation gains, but build up over time should be there. Higher environmental protection (maybe even the inclusion of lead lined vehicle panels) should slow this until it can safely be ignored.
SECONDLY
*Mutagen as it exists could be scrapped in favor of the following:
-Standard mutagen accelerates mutation rate over a period of time. To help remove the matter from nothing/sudden superhero scenario not only is this a long process but it takes a healthy excess of food to sustain it. Perhaps set it to work somewhat akin to a flu, but being healthier makes the reaction last longer.
-Purifier is much, MUCH rarer. (prohibitively so) In its place we have inhibitor serum, an injection that works like negative mutation power. It can’t remove mutations but it will reduce the rate at which you accrue them. Combined with careful living it can keep you ‘clean’ or maintain a set of mutations without risking further alteration of form.
-In place of purifier there’s always the option of surgical removal of things like horns, extra arms, etc. etc. Rather than remove them from the list of acquired mutations this process greys them out. These mutations are merely dormant however, eventually growing back and perfectly able to progress via further mutation.
-Targeted mutagen increases your odds of landing in category as you mutate but that might be too generous. Maybe instead we could have targeted suppressants that vastly lower the odds of gaining mutations attached to certain trees.
IN GENERAL
*I believe mutation should be approached differently as a game mechanic. Make it threat rather than the stat hunting body modding it is at current.
-Mutation should be easier to combat than tailor.
-It should take considerable time to amount to a state of crawling chaos
-Maybe make it completely uncraftable. At best allowing players to flavor their mutagen and suppressants–but not create them from scratch.
-The goal of most mutagen paths should be–more so than a stat buff/debuff here or there–about changing how one plays the game. Be it in changing how certain things effect morale, eating habits, sleep schedules, environmental needs, etc.
THIS DOESN’T ADDRESS THAT MUTATIONS DON’T BALANCE WELL AGAINST EACH OTHER.
Partly this can be mitigated by the long term investment and involuntary nature of the newly suggested mutation system, wherein certain tiers of mutagen could simply be better. Indeed, entire categories of mutation could be excluded from being gained without the help of targeted mutagen. Uncraftables like Alpha, Chimera, etc. that you’re not explicitly guaranteed to come across. Similar to how the WIP bionics changes can encourage players to save themselves for fancier mods a player that otherwise wouldn’t risk body horror might be enticed to take the plunge on encountering a rare serum.
A more agreeable solution though, in my mind. Would be for each mutation category to be designed around promoting a particular lifestyle, much as these evolutionary quirks do so in the animal kingdom. Many of them do so already, some fall short and others such as alpha overshoot it. Partly I think the design mentality was that too many good mutations too soon make the game trivial which is fair. Conversely the changes I’m suggesting would alter mutation gains in such a way as to more or less scale it against zombie evolution. At best a seasoned player knowing what he wants and where to look could get a little ahead of the curve (RNG permitting), either by risking labs early or going full roulette with an untargeted lifestyle. (And to that end I’d suggest default mutation–without having taken targeted serums–have a few of its own divergent categories.)
Without the min-maxy specter of grinding up cooking to vie for genetic dominance hanging overhead much more interesting mutations are on the table, adding the oh so juicy temptation of another toy to flesh out the endgame
Thoughts?
cool
Id like mutations to be incompatible with bionics and I would not mind mutations being a ‘threat’, but I dont think we need to remove voluntary mutation from the game.
Perhaps it can be ‘safe’ or ‘good branches’. Like the super america captain serum.
If we add mutation by survival then we should probably track sources or health to determine the likelihood of mutations.
Flavoured mutagens could again, be a thing that ups your odds of a particular branch over time, rather than instant. You’d still get that sense of slow progress. If you really want to limit crafting of these things, it might open up the opportunity to make the old-style instant-mutation items a great lab reward. Very rare, but certainly a nice variation than finding a bunch of CBM’s. The trouble with lab loot as-is, is that while I love all the lab magazines, you can eventually unlock all of the mutagen serums for every branch with a single lab run. In the current config, the only limit is cooking materials. If the books gave you directions on how to do better inhibitors, or flavoured slow-change mutagens, that’d be a bit less “went in human, came out chaos”. Your limits would be cooking materials, time for mutations to develop, and extra sustenance during the heightened mutation roulette time.
I’m not sure how I feel about ambient environment being a mutagenic factor for the player: mostly because as I understand it, there isn’t much for background radiation going on in this cataclysm. Most of the mutations come about from the blob’s ability to adapt - and since you’re contaminated with it… Food made from wildlife and water would be your primary vectors for accumulating more blob, while external threats like damage, radiation, infection, sickness, extreme heat or cold, electrocution? Drowning? Would be likelier vectors. Just walking around in the open wilderness or failing to wear lead don’t strike me as a reason to increase your odds of mutating over time - lead only really blocks radiation and that is only one of many potential vectors.
While I want this to be a change-over-time effect for the player, I don’t want it to become a maintenance task where I have to take ‘please don’t mutate further’ shots like I’m trying to manage my blood sugar daily. that becomes rote in a way that seems… enh.
Mutant cultists. Poisoning peoples foodstuff and water with mutagens.
Or running arround injecting people with blowdarts for fun.
More enemies like the rat King .
A faction where you can treat mutations for money.
[s]-The Environment itself should be the weakest source of mutation gains, but build up over time should be there. Higher environmental protection (maybe even the inclusion of lead lined vehicle panels) should slow this until it can safely be ignored.[/s]
Fair enough. Eating/drinking pre-event foodstuffs, staying away from radiation and anomalies and minimizing contact (and infection) from zombies seems well enough as is. Not all of those options are likely to be easily available once food rot, zombie evolution and the hunt for better loot catches up with a player.
Principally I feel as if the fix for mutation (as I expressed at length and I’m sure sounds like I’m beating a dead horse by now) is to make it less gamey, less voluntary and less of a thing that can be off to itself in the background as a few +'s and -'s. Turning into a hideous amalgam of man and beast should bestow a set dos and don’ts that alter the way one survives. Designed around the idea that they make things more difficult if you play against these new natures but surprisingly good (or at the very least interesting) if you indulge them. For instance I feel ectothermic was a stroke of brilliance. Haven’t yet tested if wearing thermal underwear all year long equates to a happy reptile, but a weakness that is also a strength is what gives categories personality.
[quote=“Logrin, post:44, topic:12705”]You know, allot has been said here and elsewhere that I find myself agreeing with despite my love of mutations, most saliently:
*Mutations don’t balance against bionics
*Mutations don’t balance against each other
*Mutations don’t balance against character creation
*etc
I think I’ve discovered the heart of the problem. Mutations are–for the most part–entirely voluntary and entirely too easy to rectify. My solution.
FIRSTLY
*Exposure to certain criteria starts advancing you towards mutation, including but not limited to:
-Eating any post-cataclysm food source. Including drinking non-bottled water. Because of the way food rotting now works this means it becomes more of a problem in the late game, when players are more equipped to combat it.
-Having untreated infections, be they bacterial, parasitic or otherwise
-Radiation. On the subject I think nether critters and other irrational matter should give off a more dangerous form of esoteric radiation.
-The Environment itself should be the weakest source of mutation gains, but build up over time should be there. Higher environmental protection (maybe even the inclusion of lead lined vehicle panels) should slow this until it can safely be ignored.
SECONDLY
*Mutagen as it exists could be scrapped in favor of the following:
-Standard mutagen accelerates mutation rate over a period of time. To help remove the matter from nothing/sudden superhero scenario not only is this a long process but it takes a healthy excess of food to sustain it. Perhaps set it to work somewhat akin to a flu, but being healthier makes the reaction last longer.
-Purifier is much, MUCH rarer. (prohibitively so) In its place we have inhibitor serum, an injection that works like negative mutation power. It can’t remove mutations but it will reduce the rate at which you accrue them. Combined with careful living it can keep you ‘clean’ or maintain a set of mutations without risking further alteration of form.
-In place of purifier there’s always the option of surgical removal of things like horns, extra arms, etc. etc. Rather than remove them from the list of acquired mutations this process greys them out. These mutations are merely dormant however, eventually growing back and perfectly able to progress via further mutation.
-Targeted mutagen increases your odds of landing in category as you mutate but that might be too generous. Maybe instead we could have targeted suppressants that vastly lower the odds of gaining mutations attached to certain trees.
IN GENERAL
*I believe mutation should be approached differently as a game mechanic. Make it threat rather than the stat hunting body modding it is at current.
-Mutation should be easier to combat than tailor.
-It should take considerable time to amount to a state of crawling chaos
-Maybe make it completely uncraftable. At best allowing players to flavor their mutagen and suppressants–but not create them from scratch.
-The goal of most mutagen paths should be–more so than a stat buff/debuff here or there–about changing how one plays the game. Be it in changing how certain things effect morale, eating habits, sleep schedules, environmental needs, etc.
THIS DOESN’T ADDRESS THAT MUTATIONS DON’T BALANCE WELL AGAINST EACH OTHER.
Partly this can be mitigated by the long term investment and involuntary nature of the newly suggested mutation system, wherein certain tiers of mutagen could simply be better. Indeed, entire categories of mutation could be excluded from being gained without the help of targeted mutagen. Uncraftables like Alpha, Chimera, etc. that you’re not explicitly guaranteed to come across. Similar to how the WIP bionics changes can encourage players to save themselves for fancier mods a player that otherwise wouldn’t risk body horror might be enticed to take the plunge on encountering a rare serum.
A more agreeable solution though, in my mind. Would be for each mutation category to be designed around promoting a particular lifestyle, much as these evolutionary quirks do so in the animal kingdom. Many of them do so already, some fall short and others such as alpha overshoot it. Partly I think the design mentality was that too many good mutations too soon make the game trivial which is fair. Conversely the changes I’m suggesting would alter mutation gains in such a way as to more or less scale it against zombie evolution. At best a seasoned player knowing what he wants and where to look could get a little ahead of the curve (RNG permitting), either by risking labs early or going full roulette with an untargeted lifestyle. (And to that end I’d suggest default mutation–without having taken targeted serums–have a few of its own divergent categories.)
Without the min-maxy specter of grinding up cooking to vie for genetic dominance hanging overhead much more interesting mutations are on the table, adding the oh so juicy temptation of another toy to flesh out the endgame
Thoughts?[/quote]
Love the sound of pretty much all of this! Making it fully uncraftable might be a step too far against player choice/customisation though imo.
Speaking of mutations I was looking over the Troglobite mutation tree and I noticed it contains venomous but it contains no means to deliver the venom within the mutation tree. Is that intentional? It seems like fangs and/or claws would be in keeping with the general mutation tree making them the monster in the dark.
fangs would do it though its arguable that they could simply be meant to be of corrupt flesh like true mutants