Mutation category expansion

[Zireael]

Sounds like a cool idea.

[Caconym]

How about making Cannibal and/or Psychopath a mutation(or even a new mutation that does the same thing) for post threshold Beast/lupine/rat and maybe feline/chimera/raptor?

Shows further mental changes for mutants when they go over the threshold showing they no longer consider themselves human and don’t care much for human beyond the potential for them to be their next meal (and thus not thinking of it as disgusting to eat human flesh and not feel guilt for killing them).

[infectedmochi]

How about making Cannibal and/or Psychopath a mutation(or even a new mutation that does the same thing) for post threshold Beast/lupine/rat and maybe feline/chimera/raptor?

Hmm I think it would make better sense if the trait allow you to eat your own pack, for example your fellow wolves if you’re Lupine or your fellow sewer rats if you mutated far enough into Rat category.

[Logrin]

The would be high-larious.

Starts out human, eats people =

Turns into a cat, eats cougar =

I think that would actually tie into the whole “Meat Category” thing that’s started to emerge. I mean we do distinguish between insect meat and game at this point right?

As another point of discussion – I don’t really think some mutation flavors can carve out a niche for themselves without limb additions. Now yes, we have discussed that the unification of limbs is at the moment a back-burner project ((Though that “Cut off your own leg/arm” thread makes me hope.)) but additional limbs are already in the mutation framework–I’ll explain.

Cephalopods–their arms and legs already divorce themselves of pesky human limitations, when all is said and done players can alter their way to a whopping 14 tentacles, eight for arms and six for legs. Because of this I’ve the notion that so long as additional limbs replace arms or legs and can be assumed subject to bilateral symmetry ((i.e. X right arms + X left arms = Total arms)) they shouldn’t be a problem at all.

If we had the previously discussed ((at length)) mutation fit option for clothing–great. But since we don’t simply having transhuman appendages exclude certain clothing options is well enough, I like the idea of trading armor for advantageous anatomy after all–a weighing of conveniences if you will.

ALL THAT SAID.

Even if you added an arachnid abdomen with eight hairy curb-stompers onto spider mutants (and you should) I think Z-levels are what will really make them shine. Not to stretch expectations but I really could see spider mutants silently padding along skyscrapers and trapping birds ((among other things)) in giant webs.

Thoughts?

[Inadequate]

How would that work, exactly? Would you just be allowed to treat the outside of every building as a staircase, but you’re confined to moving only along the surfaces of walls as you climb?

[Logrin]

I’d assume it would turn EVERY hard surface into an UP/DOWN stair, only blocking you if a ceiling is in the way.

[Caconym]

Would probably only be doable if we ever get better z-levels done.

[Garm]

Since block is gone let me offer few ideas on my own:

1. I always assumed some very advanced stat increases shouldn’t come without any side effect, especially if they are linked with one of few specific cathegories

   For example +INT Mutations would eventually add so much brain matter to the survivor that it needs additional space to store it: It might start off with something benign (megacephaly +head burden, - reaction) which gets worse (can’t wear hard helmets) and then maybe after threshold turn into something else (cranial tentacles, -reaction, -head HP, can’t wear helmets)

   After that player can choose to mitigate the penalties caused by side effects (Tentacle carapace growth: normal head HP, reduced +INT) or delve deeper for even greater benefits (Extremely sensitive tentacles +pain modifier, +hearing, +PER?)

Similar concepts can be applied to all stat increasing mutations (STR - muscle mass, muscle bulk; DEX - hunger, fragility; PER - more pain, sensory overload)

2. More “neutral” mutations. From many of my playstyles I’ve noticed that I am prone on using purifier whenever I get even one undesirable mutation. I believe many follow suit. Addition of neutral mutations would greatly increase uniqueness of players, since players would more likely keep random mutations, knowing they wont affect them as much, instead of savescumming. In the end even munchkins would end up with godlike characters as before, but they would be riddled with multiple unique “flavour” mutations as well.

3. Multiple pathways for each branch. Again expansion on 1st suggestion - I feel like categories themselves aren’t enough in some cases. While beast family is pretty much covered by lupine, feline, and ursine categories many others aren’t as lucky. For example different families of tentacles mentioned above, carapace structure - hard shell\soft shell. Essentially prioritize branching to progression: more mutations that allow multiple advanced mutations instead of single mutation chains of A->B->C->D.

[KA101]

[quote=“Caconym, post:162, topic:3755”]How about making Cannibal and/or Psychopath a mutation(or even a new mutation that does the same thing) for post threshold Beast/lupine/rat and maybe feline/chimera/raptor?

Shows further mental changes for mutants when they go over the threshold showing they no longer consider themselves human and don’t care much for human beyond the potential for them to be their next meal (and thus not thinking of it as disgusting to eat human flesh and not feel guilt for killing them).[/quote]

Already exists, it’s called Sapiovore.

Mochi’s is interesting but would require infrastructure making the relevant critters “own-species”. Right now that doesn’t happen. (Maybe it will!)

[Caconym]

[quote=“KA101, post:169, topic:3755”][quote=“Caconym, post:162, topic:3755”]How about making Cannibal and/or Psychopath a mutation(or even a new mutation that does the same thing) for post threshold Beast/lupine/rat and maybe feline/chimera/raptor?

Shows further mental changes for mutants when they go over the threshold showing they no longer consider themselves human and don’t care much for human beyond the potential for them to be their next meal (and thus not thinking of it as disgusting to eat human flesh and not feel guilt for killing them).[/quote]

Already exists, it’s called Sapiovore.

Mochi’s is interesting but would require infrastructure making the relevant critters “own-species”. Right now that doesn’t happen. (Maybe it will!)[/quote]
Ah, didn’t know it was already a thing, needs to be expanded to a couple more categories (like say lupine and rat[makes sense to me] )imo.
And yeah Mochi’s idea is good, would definitely want to see that be a thing.

[KA101]

[quote=“Zireael, post:145, topic:3755”][quote=“Soyweiser, post:144, topic:3755”]Yes that is possible :D.

Might actually be a nice addition to have the @ change color.[/quote]

That’s a brilliant idea![/quote]

Just going over some of the older pages, make sure I didn’t miss anything.

Checked on this and it’s already used for important status effects such as “invisible”, “on fire”, “stunned”, “underwater”, etc. Though I’d love to let you change colors, that kinda throws the system off. Sorry. :-/

[The_Lone_Badger]

Can heavily-mutated carnivores eat raw meat? (With no chance of food poisoning and replacing the morale penalty with a small bonus). If not, they should be able to.

[9600bauds]

Can heavily-mutated carnivores eat raw meat? (With no chance of food poisoning and replacing the morale penalty with a small bonus). If not, they should be able to.

As it stands, raw meat is considerably less filling than cooked meat and getting the tools to cook it is very easy (you can get a fire and a stick anywhere), so the only real reason to eat raw meat would be if you have too much of it to eat before it spoils and you want the small morale bonus.
I propose that, to make eating raw meat seem appealing, heavily mutated carnivores could get a “bloodlust” stat buff for eating fresh raw meat, which would work similarly to alcohol but in inverse. So, if you consume your fresh-butchered prey right away, you get some temporary speed and strength bonuses.
As an interesting downside from this, carnivores could still get raw meat parasites, besides the heavy nutrition loss. If the player is mutated enough, there would even be an addiction potential to fresh, bloody meat.
I think it’d go a long way towards diversifying meat from butchered corpses.

[KA101]

[quote=“The Lone Badger, post:172, topic:3755”]Can heavily-mutated carnivores eat raw meat? (With no chance of food poisoning and replacing the morale penalty with a small bonus). If not, they should be able to.

As it stands, raw meat is considerably less filling than cooked meat and getting the tools to cook it is very easy (you can get a fire and a stick anywhere), so the only real reason to eat raw meat would be if you have too much of it to eat before it spoils and you want the small morale bonus.
I propose that, to make eating raw meat seem appealing, heavily mutated carnivores could get a “bloodlust” stat buff for eating fresh raw meat, which would work similarly to alcohol but in inverse. So, if you consume your fresh-butchered prey right away, you get some temporary speed and strength bonuses.
As an interesting downside from this, carnivores could still get raw meat parasites, besides the heavy nutrition loss. If the player is mutated enough, there would even be an addiction potential to fresh, bloody meat.
I think it’d go a long way towards diversifying meat from butchered corpses.[/quote]

Yeah, incentivizing raw-meat is an idea. But especially with Rivet making Raw = LOL UR PARASITES, I’m gonna stick with the original plan: Hunters, etc would be able to bypass the butchering/pulping and directly feed from corpses, and particularly carnivorous folks could tear off chunks of $CRITTER_MEAT and eat it during the battle.

That nearly made it in with the earlier Chimera stuff, but I scrapped it due to problems getting the meat-type from the critter definition. Will take another shot at it in the future.

[9600bauds]

[quote=“KA101, post:174, topic:3755”]Hunters, etc would be able to bypass the butchering/pulping and directly feed from corpses, and particularly carnivorous folks could tear off chunks of $CRITTER_MEAT and eat it during the battle.

That nearly made it in with the earlier Chimera stuff, but I scrapped it due to problems getting the meat-type from the critter definition. Will take another shot at it in the future.[/quote]
That sounds even better! When you do get around to it, I’d love to help if possible.

[Zireael]

I like the raw meat ideas here!

[KA101]

[quote=“Logrin, post:149, topic:3755”]Been too long since I’ve throw up a new stack of suggestions, so here goes!

I’ve seen a few posts in the wake of ectothermic that suggest players benefiting from near freezing temperatures–everything from moving faster to being an uncanny X-Man. I won’t say these are bad suggestions (( As I make enough of those myself!)) I think the premise of a cold weather power is pretty neat, so I came up with this.

SLIME MUTATION

“Can’t think of a good name for this yet.” - You’re gelatinous exterior becomes hard and brittle when exposed to freezing temperatures, granting armor and shrinking max hp dependent upon how cold you are.

I also thought of a sweet threshold mutation for slimes.

Amorphous - You’ve degraded into a shapeless amebic mass that lacks any discerning features, only able to rouse crude facsimiles of your missing appendages to interact with the world around you.

Effect - The HP for your head and both sets of arms and legs is permanently set to zero. All that ‘lost’ hp is heaped onto your torso to simulate how hard it is to kill something that by and large lacks organs. This would negate plenty of mutations. This would exclude pretty much all non-watertight clothing. This would probably disallow the intricate movements needed for most martial arts.

It would also assume the character capable of rousing crude facsimiles of its lost appendages for fine item manipulation, so melee weapons and firearms are still usable. Also you’d end up with quite allot of storage space by virtue of being able to store items inside of yourself, CBMs could be hit or miss for the same reason.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Bad news: playing around with HP infrastructure ain’t happening, and given what happens a bit later on the tree you really don’t wanna carry things in yourself. Likewise I didn’t bother with augs just yet.

Good news: AMORPHOUS happens to be a very important post-Thresh mutation for Aqueous folks.

Better news: SLIMESPAWNER is finally operational. It’s still in PR, but those of you who wanted to generate friends? Granted.

[KA101]

Doubleposting: just set the PR for merge review.

If you’d like to comment on anything (slimes, insect/spider, bird) now is an excellent time.

[Sanarr]

I wonder if I could suggest some ideas for mutation… I’ll try.

First - any chance to implement some climate oriented mutations? I’ve asked about arctic mutations before, so its just a reminder.

Second - correct me if I wrong, but mutations seems to be like passive bionics right now. Maybe we should make some active usage of bionic traits? Specially defined web attack for spider, venom counter for vemom users (so you can make venomous spit/sting/bite once it filled), chameleon pattern activation for lizard, etc.

Third (as expansion of second idea) - how about werewolf-esque concept. Some mutation that could be dormant in your genes (or just have inner, hidden effects) and could be activated with some circumstances like threat, pain or just will of char (and switched back to dormant state when outer factors are gone). So, once we have working NPC /factions/attitude towards player stuff (yeah, let me be a dreamer) it could help those chars that want to be mutated but doesnt want to be shot for that. I hope that I explained it clear.

[Senrain]

There should really be a point where you amass enough mutations that the game happily informs you that you are not human anymore and makes all humans hostile/afraid of you.