Moving flaming weapons to a mod

Adventurer · 2016-09-17T01:53:30.000Z

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:19, topic:12545”]From what I understand, it’s more about keeping one build each week in addition to the regular proper experimental builds, so that there is always a “less experimental” build in addition to the “fully experimental” ones.
This would allow merging experimental-experimental things by the start of the week, then fixing it before everyone complains about the whole game being broken.[/quote]

He specifically brought it up as a response to his PR being controversial, and compared it to the volume change. His reasons for wanting it worries me.

BorkBorkGoesTheCode · 2016-09-17T02:02:50.000Z

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:9, topic:12545”]The issue got swamped with opinions, so I guess he’s deleting some to make it more about arguments rather than just opinions.
Forum is the place for discussion. Github is not good for long chains of exchanges, especially involving lots of personal preferences that aren’t related directly to code, quoting etc.[/quote]
There is a very big problem with that idea: mugling and others aren’t participating in forum discussions and don’t have forum accounts. How can these discussions happen?

[quote=“Adventurer, post:7, topic:12545”]Seriously, what is with that mugling guy? Why can’t he just be nice to people

I’ve been paying attention to that PR and I notice that after he locked the discussion (again), he removed comments and edited his posts to make his argument stronger and said it was ‘moderation’.[/quote]
In general, mugling is formal in discussion; He doesn’t often insult people.

I missed that; Do you have screen captures of the missing posts?

mugling had a lot of PRs lately that were heavily discussed without a lot of people offering constructive criticism.

Beanzy · 2016-09-17T02:35:34.000Z

BorkBorkGoesTheCode:

There is a very big problem with that idea: mugling and others aren’t participating in forum discussions and don’t have forum accounts. How can these discussions happen?

I absolutely agree with this.

If someone doesn’t participate in the forums themselves, but proceeds to tell others to bring their opinions and discussion there, it’s not only a sign of bad faith but of dismissiveness and condescension as well.

If you only are available on github, don’t complain when people use it as a medium to communicate with you.

Adventurer · 2016-09-17T02:40:59.000Z

Beanzy:

[quote=“BorkBorkGoesTheCode, post:22, topic:12545”]There is a very big problem with that idea: mugling and others aren’t participating in forum discussions and don’t have forum accounts. How can these discussions happen?

I absolutely agree with this.

If someone doesn’t participate in the forums themselves, but proceeds to tell others to bring their opinions and discussion there, it’s not only a sign of bad faith but of dismissiveness and condescension as well.

If you only are available on github, don’t complain when people use it as a medium to communicate with you.[/quote]

God, yes, this x100

SpadeDraco · 2016-09-17T02:49:06.000Z

Coolthulhu:

Content removal is morally wrong and “moving” is 5/7 of “removing”

I don’t really have a dog in this fight but… Can I sig this? Please tell me I can sig this? Had me laughing for several straight minutes.

TheWumpus · 2016-09-17T03:13:53.000Z

If they weren’t crap I’d probably use them. As it stands they give away my position, are crap, and require refueling. Two out of three are forgivable. I just blacklist them. I don’t see anything wrong with putting them in their own separate mod.

X-PLODE · 2016-09-17T03:14:20.000Z

I’ve never used a flaming weapon before simply because i have better weapons and fire scares me into believing i’m going to kill myself somehow by setting fire to everything.

What happens if i smash a jerrycan of gasoline?

TheWumpus · 2016-09-17T03:29:18.000Z

[quote=“X-PLODE, post:27, topic:12545”]I’ve never used a flaming weapon before simply because i have better weapons and fire scares me into believing i’m going to kill myself somehow by setting fire to everything.

What happens if i smash a jerrycan of gasoline?[/quote]

I vote you find out.

SpadeDraco · 2016-09-17T03:31:09.000Z

[quote=“X-PLODE, post:27, topic:12545”]I’ve never used a flaming weapon before simply because i have better weapons and fire scares me into believing i’m going to kill myself somehow by setting fire to everything.

What happens if i smash a jerrycan of gasoline?[/quote]

Y’know I think this is why I usually blacklist the mod. In the past I’ve never had a great understanding as to why I didn’t really like flaming swords, but was totally ok with power armor and bionics. That’s why. It’s because I subconsciously realized that making\wielding one of those things is a really goddamn stupid idea. I mean I sometimes worry that I’m not being careful enough with matches and a match is nothing compared to a 3 foot long gasoline spewing atrocity that it’s physically impossible to hold more than a few feet away from your face.

BorkBorkGoesTheCode · 2016-09-17T03:35:50.000Z

I was wrong.

kilozombie · 2016-09-17T03:37:11.000Z

No one needs to argue why something should not be moved to a mod, but rather a compelling case for moving something to a mod needs to be made. The burden is to provide a sufficiently supported argument for moving something to a mod.

Quote from the other thread that is the only one that holds water to me.

The only, only reason for moving these things to a mod that I’ve seen is to ‘remove bloat’. But that isn’t a good enough reason. If you want to remove bloat, like others have said there are way too many redundant firearms, redundant clothes, vehicle parts, etc. etc. etc. that rarely if ever find use. The point is not to bloat, it’s to add variety, potential, possibility. The worry is not that existing players who like flaming weapons existing will forget to add them-- it’s

that new players won’t understand the poorly-named ‘improbable weapons mod’ and not enable it
that new players won’t want to ‘bloat’ the ‘base game experience’ and neglect mods entirely, and end up effectively removing content (which the player might otherwise enjoy for flavor purposes-- flaming swords are rad)

You could definitely fix #1 with better names and descriptions (though beware of spoiling things like PKmod’s Doom locations) but #2 is a more inherent problem in how people view mods in traditional games. For instance, would you spend 15 minutes adding mods to every new game you play? Even if they were easy to add? No, because you don’t know what the “”"“REAL”""" game is like, yet. No baseline = little incentive to try anything else.

Blacklists-- those are really probably fine. Enjoy the game how you want, ESPECIALLY if you know what you want.

Arkenstone · 2016-09-17T04:27:37.000Z

Well, I’m a new player and so as long as I felt the additions were balanced, I added them. I immediately added PK’s rebalance mod, for example, without too much thought. I turned on wander spawns after I got comfortable with the game and decided that they were actually had been balanced to plausible levels without teleporting zombies.

Rot · 2016-09-17T05:29:10.000Z

[quote=“kilozombie, post:31, topic:12545”]

No one needs to argue why something should not be moved to a mod, but rather a compelling case for moving something to a mod needs to be made. The burden is to provide a sufficiently supported argument for moving something to a mod.

Quote from the other thread that is the only one that holds water to me.

The only, only reason for moving these things to a mod that I’ve seen is to ‘remove bloat’. But that isn’t a good enough reason. If you want to remove bloat, like others have said there are way too many redundant firearms, redundant clothes, vehicle parts, etc. etc. etc. that rarely if ever find use. The point is not to bloat, it’s to add variety, potential, possibility. The worry is not that existing players who like flaming weapons existing will forget to add them-- it’s

that new players won’t understand the poorly-named ‘improbable weapons mod’ and not enable it
that new players won’t want to ‘bloat’ the ‘base game experience’ and neglect mods entirely, and end up effectively removing content (which the player might otherwise enjoy for flavor purposes-- flaming swords are rad)

You could definitely fix #1 with better names and descriptions (though beware of spoiling things like PKmod’s Doom locations) but #2 is a more inherent problem in how people view mods in traditional games. For instance, would you spend 15 minutes adding mods to every new game you play? Even if they were easy to add? No, because you don’t know what the “”"“REAL”""" game is like, yet. No baseline = little incentive to try anything else.

Blacklists-- those are really probably fine. Enjoy the game how you want, ESPECIALLY if you know what you want.[/quote]

THIS.

Profugo_Barbatus · 2016-09-17T05:45:29.000Z

Arkenstone:

I honestly think there’s a good argument to be made for keeping crafting lists simple. A lot of the pre-memorized construction options are frankly ridiculous. Do most of us run around with ideas for flaming baseball bats?

Well, its certainly not a difficult idea to have come to mind, nor a difficult design to envision. That’s probably why its auto learn, its not an exotic thing. Just some flammable stuff, put on the bat, lit on fire.

I voted to keep it in mainline. From my understanding, the problem isn’t that they are overpowered. They just aren’t all that useful compared to the costs. But that’s not much of a reason to remove them. If they are completely useless as weapons, then I’d rather see some small amount of effort spent to buff them a bit. An increase to the speed at which fire deals damage to those who are engulfed. A human body engulfed in flames falls apart surprisingly fast. Don’t think the blob would take too kindly to being boiled either.

StopSignal · 2016-09-17T05:58:21.000Z

[quote=“kilozombie, post:31, topic:12545”]

No one needs to argue why something should not be moved to a mod, but rather a compelling case for moving something to a mod needs to be made. The burden is to provide a sufficiently supported argument for moving something to a mod.

Quote from the other thread that is the only one that holds water to me.

The only, only reason for moving these things to a mod that I’ve seen is to ‘remove bloat’. But that isn’t a good enough reason. If you want to remove bloat, like others have said there are way too many redundant firearms, redundant clothes, vehicle parts, etc. etc. etc. that rarely if ever find use. The point is not to bloat, it’s to add variety, potential, possibility. The worry is not that existing players who like flaming weapons existing will forget to add them-- it’s

that new players won’t understand the poorly-named ‘improbable weapons mod’ and not enable it
that new players won’t want to ‘bloat’ the ‘base game experience’ and neglect mods entirely, and end up effectively removing content (which the player might otherwise enjoy for flavor purposes-- flaming swords are rad)

You could definitely fix #1 with better names and descriptions (though beware of spoiling things like PKmod’s Doom locations) but #2 is a more inherent problem in how people view mods in traditional games. For instance, would you spend 15 minutes adding mods to every new game you play? Even if they were easy to add? No, because you don’t know what the “”"“REAL”""" game is like, yet. No baseline = little incentive to try anything else.

Blacklists-- those are really probably fine. Enjoy the game how you want, ESPECIALLY if you know what you want.[/quote]

This all the way.
From the first days i joined the forums i just saw developers slowly getting more and more irrational with what they want to do with the game, and also slowly starting to think that the game is all theirs. But hey, there are way more developers and also lots of players who all put love into this game. Let’s stop butchering the game, please. In my opinion it’s perfect as it is, i guess i’d just like less menus and that’s it.
Let’s not suck the fun out of it, please?

X-PLODE · 2016-09-17T07:42:21.000Z

I basically would be happy with an ingame hotkey in the crafting menu to hide/skip recipes, that way i can have my own personal blacklist of crap i never use.

No need for a removal mod for items then.

It also helps navigate the crafting list(as there isn’t a pagedown hotkey) and helps rendering/processing speed.

Opening up the food crafting menu is a headache most of the time, especially when i gather a lot of ingredients.

I also think that half of the clothes you can craft shouldn’t be craftable at all, only as loot pickups.

Not only does this motivate the player to scavenge for some choice pieces of clothes but it also streamlines gameplay and makes it less grinding.

DG123 · 2016-09-17T10:58:34.000Z

I think it makes very little sense for a weapon’s power to be significantly increased by setting it on fire. Unless you impaled an enemy on it for several seconds it wouldn’t have the flame in contact with the enemy for long enough to harm them.

What would make more sense would be just building in aux flamethrowers to the hilts of the swords etc…

We have pistol swords now. This would be similar.

Shopkeeper · 2016-09-17T12:55:53.000Z

I’ve used them before, not much recently. But both a flaming katana and zweihänder have been part of my characters arsenal, though firebrand is by far my favorite.

It’s less about the little loss in effectiveness because style is far more important when you’ve already got a sword and the skills to back it up.

Becoming the warrior of the apocalypse who fences with a flaming broadsword is something you can only do in CDDA. I think it’d be wrong to potentially rob new players of the experience.

Ly1 · 2016-09-17T13:16:59.000Z

Just remove them from the game entirely, who even uses them?

Same could be said about a lot of stuff. Things keep getting added all the time, and nothing ever gets removed. It’s way past time for a clearout of all the junk. The game is full of legacy recipes that used to be useful but aren’t anymore, or things that were never useful but were added because someone thought it would be cool; tailoring category is probably the worst offender for this, but the same could be said for weapons too.

At present we have a crafting menu that lags the game whenever you open it, and most of what’s in it is crap you’ll never want or need.

kilozombie · 2016-09-17T15:43:14.000Z

[quote=“Ly, post:39, topic:12545”]Just remove them from the game entirely, who even uses them?

Same could be said about a lot of stuff. Things keep getting added all the time, and nothing ever gets removed. It’s way past time for a clearout of all the junk. The game is full of legacy recipes that used to be useful but aren’t anymore, or things that were never useful but were added because someone thought it would be cool; tailoring category is probably the worst offender for this, but the same could be said for weapons too.

At present we have a crafting menu that lags the game whenever you open it, and most of what’s in it is crap you’ll never want or need.[/quote]

If you want a version of C:DDA without so many items, go back to Whalesdev, it’s not very different.

Item variety is a huge part of what’s new. The ‘bloat’ comes from profession clothing, niche armor, inefficient storage items (that find use in earlygame), vehicle parts, miscellaneous activity tools, and the enjoyment in being able to craft tons of items by endgame. Are you saying pocket knives should stop existing? That crowbars shouldn’t ever be craftable?

Also, there’s a search function in the crafting menu, if the lag is annoying. A temporary solution, but the real solution isn’t ‘cutting out the bloat’.