Well, I believe there should be some debuff for staying dirty to long, but it should only happen after a good amount of time.
Have you ever tried not showering and wearing the same clothes for a month? Let alone a year? Apart from the hit to morale, it should also pose some minor health risks, like lice, fleas, and the like.
[quote=“Snaaty, post:21, topic:7459”]Well, I believe there should be some debuff for staying dirty to long, but it should only happen after a good amount of time.
Have you ever tried not showering and wearing the same clothes for a month? Let alone a year? Apart from the hit to morale, it should also pose some minor health risks, like lice, fleas, and the like.[/quote]
You get used to smelling bad (not that I would know, I smell great!). If you rolled around in that pile of corpses you would retch for the first little while, be nauseous for a bit after that, smell awful for a few days and then you wouldn’t even notice it. Your brain’s great at filtering out stuff it doesn’t think is important.
[quote=“Barhandar, post:14, topic:7459”]You also seem to like adding unnecessary spaces before colons. Just an observation.
We have magic car-batteries that can supply enough juice for welding and an induction forge. Water heating’s not a problem, and besides, you can use the strongest power source in 1 AU vicinity, aka the Sun. Water in a metal tank gets pretty hot if it’s summer, allowing hot showers. No luck if it’s winter, though - unless you’re heating it with a fire.[/quote]
Well considering this is ~30 years into the future, electrical components and batteries are probably much more efficient. Look at the HUGE gains we’ve made in battery capacity and shelf-life over just the past 10 years. And 20 years ago a 1 Farad capacitor was unheard of, now engineers are looking to replace batteries in certain applications with large capacity, low leakage capacitors.
Buff vs debuff… debuff for dirtyness doesn’t necesseraly mean tedium as long as it’s handled well.
I think a hygiene system could work well. My cashcard with 2 credits:
System should be meaningfull, but limited to moeale effects, scent and health/suspectability to infections & disease.
Negative effects should be easy to avoid, positive effects should be a bit harder to get.
Cleanliness system for clothes would be difficult to implement and design right, and addblots of tedium. A catchall personal hygiene system would be the right balance of depth, realism, intresting and tedium. Going granular with detail / realism (brushing teeth, cleaning fingernails, etc) would be too much IMO.
An example system could work like this…
Hygiene would be some range, say between 0 and 20.
Lower is better, a value of 1 would be considered neutral and what the player starts the game with.
Every 24 hours adds 1 to the value, some things can/will add to the value, like being covered in boomer bile or vomiting or bleeding out, but only up to a max amount like say 3 points. This extra ‘dirtyness’ might be pooled up to the maximum value or be stackable with each different type of dirt having it’s own max value.
Value 0 would be squeaky clean, with a decrease in scent (half or a third or whatever balances best.)
The maximum value of the counter would double (or triple?) scent, with every step of the counter adding a fraction of the maximum, essentially you can ignore it for a bit but it adds up after a while.
Being at value 0 would give a slight morale bonus like +5, between 1 and 4 or 5 is neutral for morale, after that you get a slight penalty like -5 at first that starts to get more severe.
Being squeaky clean gives a slight bonus to health score, 0-8 would be neutral and after that health score gets a penalty that gets more severe eventually.
Just some waterit doesn’t need to be clean, like 4 amounts or so and 20 minutes should reset the counter, but only if you have soap can it actually go to 0, otherwise it’ll be 1.
Players could construct various stuff at their base like makeshift showers or heated bathtubs with a woodstove beneath it and so on, these wouldn’t get you cleaner per se but give nice morale bonuses, one of the perks of having a base rather then being on the road I suppose.
So, it pays of to invest in hygiene, but can be ignored for a bit, you only need to clean every couple of days to prevent bad stuff from happening, starting chars and travellers arent handicapped when other priorities are are there.
Also, maybe traits like outdoorsman could decrease morale penalties for being dirty, how bout a new negative trait like ‘Hygiene OCD’, gets morale penalties if player doesnt carry either soap or disinfectant, only washes with clean water, and has occasional cravings to wash hands (takes 1 water), massive morale penalty if you skip daily hygiene, on the plus side would start game with soap, purification tablets and meds could help.
haiironosora,I really like all of the ideas you proposed.
I wish I was code-savvy so I could make an actual attempt at putting together a hygiene system
I have a cabin that doesnt have like any amenities like running water and much electricity. When we showered we either went down the hill to a house or put a pot of water on the wood stove and then put it in a bladder we hung from a tree with a hose in it and stood under it with a shower curtain around you. good times. luckily I went swimming everyday so I was not too bad. It is not too difficult to have a shower. I am totally for hygiene being added.
The spectrum ranging from penalties to bonuses sounds reasonable, but with one caveat, which is what happens if you ignore it.
Cleanliness would tend to decay to a midpoint where you get neither bonuses nor penalties. It takes work to maintain the very clean state that gives bonuses, but likewise outside of interacting with things that make you dirty (boomer bile, walking through swamps, getting gore splattered on you from killing or smashing enemies), you also don’t tend to go into the area with active penalties. So in either direction, you can simply ignore the issue and it will eventually go away, but if you want to spend the effort to maintain it you can.
By the way, there has been no substantial disagreement on this for months, it’s just that no one has gotten around to doing it.
Arguably the current situation where monsters can smell you from 10+ meters away already indicates you have quite a strong odor 
If you haven’t already I recommend all of you to read One Second After. Besides being a great SHTF novel, they make many points which a lot of people ignore when there is a major societal collapse, namely in the area of hygiene. Without dropping too many spoilers, at least 2 of the “great die-offs” are caused by poor hygiene; people not bathing, washing their hands, using toilet paper, or establishing designated latrines, spreading diseases that most localities didn’t have the resources to handle, and with weakened immune systems from malnutrition couldn’t survive.
Hygiene in CDDA should be tied to overall health, the same invisible stat which determines how likely you are to get a common cold or other disease. Keeping clean and taking your vitamins should effectively remove any chance that you might have had of getting sick.
[quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:29, topic:7459”]If you haven’t already I recommend all of you to read One Second After. Besides being a great SHTF novel, they make many points which a lot of people ignore when there is a major societal collapse, namely in the area of hygiene. Without dropping too many spoilers, at least 2 of the “great die-offs” are caused by poor hygiene; people not bathing, washing their hands, using toilet paper, or establishing designated latrines, spreading diseases that most localities didn’t have the resources to handle, and with weakened immune systems from malnutrition couldn’t survive.
Hygiene in CDDA should be tied to overall health, the same invisible stat which determines how likely you are to get a common cold or other disease. Keeping clean and taking your vitamins should effectively remove any chance that you might have had of getting sick.[/quote]
oh no, it makes me think of the most tedious thing in apocalypse survival: the need to poop.
[quote=“ID404-NotFound, post:30, topic:7459”][quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:29, topic:7459”]If you haven’t already I recommend all of you to read One Second After. Besides being a great SHTF novel, they make many points which a lot of people ignore when there is a major societal collapse, namely in the area of hygiene. Without dropping too many spoilers, at least 2 of the “great die-offs” are caused by poor hygiene; people not bathing, washing their hands, using toilet paper, or establishing designated latrines, spreading diseases that most localities didn’t have the resources to handle, and with weakened immune systems from malnutrition couldn’t survive.
Hygiene in CDDA should be tied to overall health, the same invisible stat which determines how likely you are to get a common cold or other disease. Keeping clean and taking your vitamins should effectively remove any chance that you might have had of getting sick.[/quote]
oh no, it makes me think of the most tedious thing in apocalypse survival: the need to poop.[/quote]Well I’m not saying that ALL aspects of hygiene should be included in the game, I would personally find having to stop and poop a couple times a day and having to scavenge TP to be extremely tedious, I’m merely saying that any hygiene implemented in the game should also affect the hidden health stat.
Hand sanitizer to increase the hidden health stat?
I would use it before cooking food.
Add it for flavor muahaha. Get it? Flavor? No pun intended, but pun encouraged.
Am I the only one who thinks this would actually add a lot of immersion? Think about it - you’re there, cowering in a cupboard, waiting for the monster to wander off - but oh no, you’re beginning to need the toilet! How long can you hold it in! Do you make a break for it, or risk shitting yourself?
having clean hands surely doesn t contribute to beeing healthy in the sense of a resilientbody capable of fending of diseases. It might avert getting sick though…however not by increasing your bodys health.
On the other hand beeing rediculessly dirty might actually damage your health. As might beeing overly steril.
[quote=“Valpo, post:34, topic:7459”]having clean hands surely doesn t contribute to beeing healthy in the sense of a resilientbody capable of fending of diseases. It might avert getting sick though…however not by increasing your bodys health.
On the other hand beeing rediculessly dirty might actually damage your health. As might beeing overly steril.[/quote]
Well, clean hands do actually help to prevent certain types of infections. It would also help to prevent YOU from infecting other people, but in Cata, this is probably a moot point. Also, the general consensus seems to be that hygiene should give a boost to “tidy” characters, while being safe to ignore for people who don’t want to mess with it. I’m fine with that too, actually.
[quote=“Malaxxor, post:35, topic:7459”][quote=“Valpo, post:34, topic:7459”]having clean hands surely doesn t contribute to beeing healthy in the sense of a resilientbody capable of fending of diseases. It might avert getting sick though…however not by increasing your bodys health.
On the other hand beeing rediculessly dirty might actually damage your health. As might beeing overly steril.[/quote]
Well, clean hands do actually help to prevent certain types of infections. It would also help to prevent YOU from infecting other people, but in Cata, this is probably a moot point. Also, the general consensus seems to be that hygiene should give a boost to “tidy” characters, while being safe to ignore for people who don’t want to mess with it. I’m fine with that too, actually.[/quote]
Thats not my point. I didn t deny the fact that clean hands can avert diseases. My point was that it will not increase your health. Its however one way to keepit from decreasing. I was intending this to be a counter argument for the believe that hygiene should increase your ingame characters health. A better aproach would be (even though i think its to much of a chore ) to have an additional chance to contract a disease while beeing dirty enough.
[quote=“Valpo, post:36, topic:7459”][quote=“Malaxxor, post:35, topic:7459”][quote=“Valpo, post:34, topic:7459”]having clean hands surely doesn t contribute to beeing healthy in the sense of a resilientbody capable of fending of diseases. It might avert getting sick though…however not by increasing your bodys health.
On the other hand beeing rediculessly dirty might actually damage your health. As might beeing overly steril.[/quote]
Well, clean hands do actually help to prevent certain types of infections. It would also help to prevent YOU from infecting other people, but in Cata, this is probably a moot point. Also, the general consensus seems to be that hygiene should give a boost to “tidy” characters, while being safe to ignore for people who don’t want to mess with it. I’m fine with that too, actually.[/quote]
Thats not my point. I didn t deny the fact that clean hands can avert diseases. My point was that it will not increase your health. Its however one way to keepit from decreasing. I was intending this to be a counter argument for the believe that hygiene should increase your ingame characters health. A better aproach would be (even though i think its to much of a chore ) to have an additional chance to contract a disease while beeing dirty enough.[/quote]
I did understand what you meant. However, I was under the impression that the “health” stat didn’t only represent your physical health. Reading up on the wiki, I was wrong. I still think that a small bonus to health would be a nice way to represent smaller risks of infection.
It’s like the difference between having utensils to eat food, or eating with your hands after working on that truck engine.
This is a good example. Hell, our hands are dirty enough in daily life when we’re not doing anything particularly messy. Imagine a zombie apocalypse, where your hands (and your clothes and your everything) are probably perpetually covered in zombie blood.
Uuugh.
This is a good example. Hell, our hands are dirty enough in daily life when we’re not doing anything particularly messy. Imagine a zombie apocalypse, where your hands (and your clothes and your everything) are probably perpetually covered in zombie blood.
Uuugh.[/quote]
Lets just pretend our surivor cleans himself up w/o our commands like uh breathing (second nature n stuff) yeah so he is perpetually clean.(thats why you don t stay gooed for longer then a minute or so :3 or so we pretend)
~happy thoughts