Do people really dislike the Heatblades?

Game Talk The Drawing Board
41

Well, in a one on one fight it makes you practically invincible. Say a zombie hulk comes at you, anytime he gets within melee range you can simply teleport him away, toss whatever projectiles you have on hand while he comes at you, then walk around, pick those up and repeat. It’s not like you’d just keep hitting with the teleport blade while hoping for the one-hit kill. So a better way to balance that would be to have the blade occasionally teleport you, just to keep you on your toes - it’s unstable teleportation technology and you’re hitting stuff with it, that’s the very least I’d expect could go wrong.

As for timing, I doubt that’s an issue - teleporters and teleport bionics are instant, after all. The thing is that teleport traps already have you in a teleporter field, and a teleporter device/bionic presumably wraps you in a similar field before teleporting you, but a blade with a teleporter stuck to it? On the other hand teleport traps are already in the game, so it shouldn’t be difficult to justify making your own.

42

Ah yes, I see your point :slight_smile:

43

Moving bionic superpowers into external items that have none of the risk of bionics is going to be a “definite no” from the perspective of gameplay. The entire point of bionics is a risk/reward scenario, and moving their functionality into items effectively renders pointless the entire existence of the bionics system.

Solely from a gameplay perspective, this isn’t something we’re going to be able to allow.

The “teleporter weapon” would be fine so long as the weapon goes with the enemy when you hit it. :V

“God damn, a hulk! I really hope this teleporter I strapped to this Javelin sends him somewhere far away from here…”

Of course, in game the player only gets access to short-range teleporters, but since rapid teleportation can result in the target’s netherum infection getting “stuck” in the subprime, some weapon that sticks into them and then rapidly teleports them when drained could outright kill a netherum-infected organism, popping it around for several turns until it is just a pulped corpse.

Could be fun as a top tier weapon, would be expensive to make, somewhat risky, and limited in versatility though.

44

I doubt this would end up being a blade, probably a device with a big radio dish kind of thing on it you aim at a nearby space. Also, while you could transport that angry hulk away if it got close, remember this probably consumes a TON of power; the standard teleporter already needs a fair amount of plutonium just to move you, a projected, focused field as opposed to the simple spherical one around the device itself that the normal teleporter uses will take even more.

Although, perhaps we can take the normal teleporter, add a remote control, cover it with glue, and just stick the thing to the hulk and trigger it with the remote :slight_smile:
“Excuse me mister zombie, would you hold this for a moment please?” Beep, zombie vanishes.

EDIT - Just read GlyphGryph’s post.
That sounds fair enough, especially with the teleporting; I kinda like the idea of the super-expensive warp javelin for those “I don’t CARE what it takes, I’m getting rid of this jerk!” moments, but a “point this and monster go bye-bye” is just broken.

But, do you think an Endothermic weapon could be doable? We have the Bio-Blaster rifle, and the endo-blade would have a LOT of drawbacks:
Very hard to make, probably harder than just installing the bionic
You have to give up a perfectly good bionic to build it (you have to use parts from the bionics themselves to build it)
The effect is tied to one weapon, the bionic works with almost anything
Its not as efficient as the bionic is, similar to the bio-blaster rifle

The heat drain and electroshock bionics already work with stuff you’re holding, this just expands on that a bit.

45

[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:43, topic:4558”]

Of course, in game the player only gets access to short-range teleporters, but since rapid teleportation can result in the target’s netherum infection getting “stuck” in the subprime, some weapon that sticks into them and then rapidly teleports them when drained could outright kill a netherum-infected organism, popping it around for several turns until it is just a pulped corpse.

Could be fun as a top tier weapon, would be expensive to make, somewhat risky, and limited in versatility though.[/quote]

Forgot the other half of that bit o’ lore, GlyphGryph…creates another portal, or at least it did the last time the Lab folks checked. :wink:

46

It doesn’t necessarily create a portal, right then and there. It just helps makes everything worse, in general. :stuck_out_tongue: It should totally have a chance of a portal or of bringing ‘pure’ nether creatures back with it though! Definitely a “oh god oh god I hope this doesn’t make things worse” sort of device.

Would be great if it incremented a global “likelyhood of portal spawn” counter every time you teleported or made something else teleport, hah.

47

[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:46, topic:4558”]It doesn’t necessarily create a portal, right then and there. It just helps makes everything worse, in general. :stuck_out_tongue: It should totally have a chance of a portal or of bringing ‘pure’ nether creatures back with it though! Definitely a “oh god oh god I hope this doesn’t make things worse” sort of device.

Would be great if it incremented a global “likelyhood of portal spawn” counter every time you teleported or made something else teleport, hah.[/quote]

Hm… on the subject of creating portals… What about a portal gun? Pop one at your base and an alternate fire somewhere else and have a portal to your base? This would be extremely end-game mind you, perhaps something for an alien expansion? Have been thinking about that a bit… Would be cool to have some weird alien creatures to fight.

48

I just got the mental image of Hitler in a really, really, bad fur suit.

49

desrik, in relation to your idea I once found a whispering stone that could create portals that you could walk through. It also drove away shadows. Very cool experience.

50

If you don’t like these weapons just don’t use them.

I don’t use them but howerer i neither like or dislike them. Just because i can get far-more powerful weapon at first-second day that extremaly powerful for all of zombies.

51

To be honest? I really, really hate the silly, Dead Rising crap. I play Cataclysm because I want to roleplay the end of the world. If I wanted Dead Rising lolrandumb zambie killin’, I’d go play Dead Rising.

Basically, I object on thematic elements. The little bit that made Cataclysm feel even kind of cohesive has been evaporating at a wild rate over the past couple of releases. For every cool little lore-detail like wrecked cars everywhere or the whole “The U.S. was falling apart before the cataclysm struck anyway” subplot, there’s a goddamn heatblade or a Louisville Slaughterer to snap me out of my immersion and make me feel like I’m in a cartoon.

It’s like… Okay. The occasional, incredibly rare silly element? That adds to the tension overall. Actual Cannibal Shia Lebouf was fine because you almost never saw him, and basically just served the same purpose as a comedy beat in a horror movie by making you relax so that further tension can be applied. (Is fine? The fact that I’m not even sure if that’s still in is part of what makes it fine, frankly.)

On the other hand-- I look at the crafting menu a lot, and every time my eyes pass over the heatswords and assorted silly shit, my suspension of disbelief is just slaughtered.

Locking them to books is a good solution, I guess. So long as I don’t have to see them every single time I open my damn crafting menu, and the book is titled something very obvious so I don’t go accidentally reading it in an attempt to get something useful.

Alternately-- Anyone played New Vegas? Wild Wasteland. There’s your solution. “Here’s a bunch of cool, mildly funny shit that will probably break your immersion. Are you okay with burning a trait to see it?”

52

I want to point out that Cataclysm isn’t super serious zombie apocalypse simulator, yes it has zombies and survival, it tries to be realistic in many cases. But it isn’t 100% serious about that, as evidence in various seemingly joke weapons and silly messages through out the game. If Cataclysm was an adventure kind of game, or a FPS I would have felt the same as you. But it’s a roguelike, something about roguelikes, to me as least is that roguelikes are never too serious, there are jokes and silly stuff, guess because I played too much NetHack.

In short, Cataclysm is going to be like this from now on, maybe it’s a bad thing, maybe it’s a good thing, but I’m fine with it either way.

53

What a strange and wrong thing to say.

We’re simply waiting for the mod manager, then the swords can be split and become a pack that ships with the game.

54

I just got the mental image of Hitler in a really, really, bad fur suit.[/quote]
Does that make him Das Fürer of THEM?

55

[quote=“infectedmochi, post:52, topic:4558”]I want to point out that Cataclysm isn’t super serious zombie apocalypse simulator, yes it has zombies and survival, it tries to be realistic in many cases. But it isn’t 100% serious about that, as evidence in various seemingly joke weapons and silly messages through out the game. If Cataclysm was an adventure kind of game, or a FPS I would have felt the same as you. But it’s a roguelike, something about roguelikes, to me as least is that roguelikes are never too serious, there are jokes and silly stuff, guess because I played too much NetHack.

In short, Cataclysm is going to be like this from now on, maybe it’s a bad thing, maybe it’s a good thing, but I’m fine with it either way.[/quote]

I said this on another post, but once Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup got rid of all the novelty and joke items and elements, it got a lot, lot better. Although this is subjective, pretty much everyone on the forums saw this as an improvement and it allowed the game to become better balanced and seem a lot more professional. Obviously light hearted/funny things are great (like Xom in DCSS) but when it starts being joke (or sci-fi) weapons and enemies, it just makes the game look less like a serious endeavour.

More than anything though, I think it’s pretty evident by the overwhelming amount of threads/posts on this subject that a lot of people don’t want joke/scifi/vanity weapons in the standard.

56

If you’d bother to read the backstory, C:DDA is set about twenty years in the future. Those ‘scifi weapons’ are in there because of that. Ever notice all the robots running around, or that there’s plutonium-powered cars on the streets?

57

If you’d bother to read the backstory, C:DDA is set about twenty years in the future. Those ‘scifi weapons’ are in there because of that. Ever notice all the robots running around, or that there’s plutonium-powered cars on the streets?[/quote]

The C:DDA lore is also incredibly inconsistent in regards to Power Armor and the distribution of energy weapons, and non-existent in some fundamental areas to explain the sci-fi elements. Also, that’s a really patronizing tone to take towards a valid concern.

58

I’m sorry if you took offense at my response. It wasn’t my intention to hurt your feelings.

That being said, there’s no single body of information that covers the entire setting in one place. However, through inference, we can reason that the world of C:DDA is definitely not the same as our own world. There’s the whole second Red Scare thing that was going on, we’ve got those robots and genetic mutations to account for, and we’re nearly up to our eyeballs in CBMs, not to mention that the ENTIRE plot of the game relies on a bunch of scientists doing (scifi) experiments involving traveling to other dimensions. So I’m sorry if I came across as dismissive, but I really don’t think that the request to remove scifi stuff is feasible.

If we were to remove the scifi stuff from the game we’d have to remove a substantial portion of the game’s content and we’d be left with Left 4 Dead: the Roguelike, but without a backstory of any sort.

59

[quote=“Rivet, post:58, topic:4558”]I’m sorry if you took offense at my response. It wasn’t my intention to hurt your feelings.

That being said, there’s no single body of information that covers the entire setting in one place. However, through inference, we can reason that the world of C:DDA is definitely not the same as our own world. There’s the whole second Red Scare thing that was going on, we’ve got those robots and genetic mutations to account for, and we’re nearly up to our eyeballs in CBMs, not to mention that the ENTIRE plot of the game relies on a bunch of scientists doing (scifi) experiments involving traveling to other dimensions. So I’m sorry if I came across as dismissive, but I really don’t think that the request to remove scifi stuff is feasible.

If we were to remove the scifi stuff from the game we’d have to remove a substantial portion of the game’s content and we’d be left with Left 4 Dead: the Roguelike, but without a backstory of any sort.[/quote]

I think the danger zone we’re in is defining what “Sci-Fi” to call DDA. There are facets of Sci-Fi (and I’m sure as hell no expert on them, someone with far more knowledge than me should chime in).

But to me personally:

There is real-world-just-slightly-in-the-future Sci-Fi. Weapons like lasers, energy weapons, “cloaking devices” I suppose. Technology that ramps up what we currently can find on earth or just makes expensive rare science we have now a consumer item (hydrogen-powered engines, common-use nanobots).

There is fantasy/alien Sci-Fi Star-Trek/Star-Wars stuff - deflection energy shields, teleporters, etc. This stuff you see in the Science labs and such, since its based off the “aliens” in DDA. Even some of this we aren’t venturing into - energy shield technology got shot down.

Then there is the less-grounded Sci-Fi fantasy stuff. Things that can come off wacky. They’re not grounded in current technology (and if they are they just wouldn’t work in real-world applications) and they’re not something that can be pawned off as “well its alien”. Chainsaw lajatangs and to some, this would include bending rebar and taping a gas can to it to make a flaming sword.

As for robots: depending on the type it could fit in different categories. Small rolling automated tanks (think: the early models from the Terminator series found “in our time” seen in the newest films) are easily NOW Sci-Fi or just-slightly in the future. I assumed the robot cops were more that style than RoboCop or Arnold-style Terminator.

It comes down to, where in the field of sci-fi is DDA? Its like … Conan the Barbarian, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings & the King Arthur legend are all “fantasy” … but they’re totally different settings and someone who likes one won’t necessarily like any of the others.

60

“The future is here-- it’s just not very evenly distributed.” --William Gibson

You both have great points. Going to cover your posts individually.

Rivet: I have no desire whatsoever to remove the scifi elements. They are indeed core to DDA. That said, I’ve been working off of lore threads, ingame flavor text, and as little inference as I can get away with, and there are… problems. Power armor is supposed to be prototype, rare as shit, and require a truck to operate from. Where did the Mk2 and hauling frames actually come from in the timeline? Stuff like that. Mechanics versus fluff is always one of those tricky to nail balances, but atm it’s entirely out of whack.

Dominae: Aye. We live in a future not too dissimilar from what the cyberpunk authors saw in the 80’s in the real world, so defining “scifi” is always a valid concern. That said, my interpretation of what lore I can find and the problems in interpreting it pretty much fall alongside yours.