Cease and Desist using the term Vacutainer

Game Talk The Bunker
1

Hey everybody, I got this email, and while it goes for my website, it’d prolly go for the game too.

BD VACUTAINER: Notice of Trademark Infringement: chezzo.com

Dear Respected Author/Publishing Institution,

Please be advised that Vacutainer® and Microtainer® are federally and internationally registered trademarks owned by BD (Becton, Dickinson and Company) that are used in connection with a complete system of tubes, lancets, needles and needle holders, sharps collectors, and safety devices.

Among its 121 registrations throughout the world, BD holds a trademark registration for Vacutainer® in the EU under Registration No. 876201, in the US under Registration No. 0424957, as well as an International Registration for BD Vacutainer with Design under Application No. 824745, which extends to Asia-Pacific countries. Among its 56 registrations throughout the world, BD holds a trademark registration for Microtainer® in the US under Registration No. 1042544, in China under Registration No. 279170 and in India under Registration No. 708400.

It has come to our attention that BD’s trademarks Vacutainer® and/or Microtainer® are being used improperly on your website at the URL(s) found at:chezzo.com
The content in question can be found at the following URL(s):
http://cddawiki.chezzo.com/cdda_wiki/index.php?title=Vacutainer

While we can appreciate that it may not be feasible to amend an already published work, we are hoping we can depend on you to adhere to the following usage guidelines when referencing the Vacutainer® and Microtainer® trademarks in all future publications, and that you will amend what can be easily amended online to conform to these usage guidelines:

  • Vacutainer® and Microtainer® should always be distinguished as a trademark by using it in all capital letters or with a capital “V” for Vacutainer® or capital “M” for Microtainer®;

  • Do not use Vacutainer® or Microtainer® in the plural form;

  • The Vacutainer® and Microtainer® trademarks should be used at all times as an adjective modifying a noun, e.g. “Vacutainer tube”;

  • Proper acknowledgement of BD’s rights should be given whenever Vacutainer® or Microtainer® is used through (1) use of the ® trademark notice each time the trademark appears; and (2) use of the legend “Vacutainer® (and/or Microtainer®) is a registered trademark of Becton, Dickinson and Company” at least once in all materials in which the trademark is referenced.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation and look forward to receiving confirmation by return e-mail that you will comply with our request.

We appreciate your assistance in helping us preserve the value and integrity of BD’s trademark assets.

Yours faithfully,
Laura Dooley

Next they’ll be coming for our windbreakers.

So what does everyone think it should be changed to?

2

I have to say, that was a really polite response. Was the usage guidelines consent to use it?

Edit: Looked this place up, and they supply nearly all the medical facilities in my area. They have a local “Medical Supply Store” that I guess they ship out of.

3

You could change it to the more generic “blood draw kit.” I think that’s what a vacutianer is right?

4

It is also kind of incorrect the way we have it, and something like “blood draw kit” or “blood collection kit” would be a much better description of what it actually is.

A Vacutainer is just the tube, and doesn’t include the other stuff you’d need, like a butterfly or a straight needle.

Anyways, I made it an issue: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/21459

5

I’d say blood draw kit as well. My feeling on that email is neutral mainly as I don’t k ow the ins and outs of copyright and trademark laws especially international ones.

6

First, I would point out that trademark does not mean the word is off limits in all situations (they don’t “own” the word), and a video game that came up with the term independently for something only vaguely related would very likely be considered something different enough.

Also, when did they trademark it, and when did it end up in the game (should be determinable from the source archive, I would think)? If it was provably in the game first, they can take a hike.

Of course, even if either of those two things apply (I’m actually curious on the second one), it’s far FAR easier simply to give it a different name, and I don’t think it really matters. Considering that they weren’t utter donkey’s behinds about it (which is sadly somewhat rare these days), that would be the polite thing of us to do - I LIKE rewarding good behaviour.

I would suggest a polite response mentioning that your website is simply a reference point for the material in a non-profit, volunteer-made game with public source code, that nobody intended to infringe anything (or even knew it was trademarked), and we will change it something else as soon as reasonably possible. Commenting on the politeness of the cease-and-desist is optional, but I would - again, rewarding good behaviour is a good thing.

Mind you, I have followed some of this stuff the last few years, so I have a clue or two, but I’m definitely no expert.

Oh, one more thing: defense of trademark is legally required. Trademarks which aren’t sufficiently defended can be lost (see “thermos”, which was once Thermos brand insulated bottle), so sending such a letter when it seems even close to reasonable is highly encouraged - they aren’t just being idiots about it.

From the email, they seem to have it registered independently in the US, the UK, and several other places, so I don’t think “international” is really going to matter much - it’s going to be local everywhere people are playing this game.

7

Some good points here, and at least they weren’t jerks about it. Like was said above about them not doing this with the possibility of losing the trademark, ie. thermos, it seems it would be a bad idea for them not to send this, from a legal perspective. I guess changing the name would be easiest. Blood draw kit, blood ampule kit, auto-syringe, or whatever could be used with no big impact on the game/gameplay.

Is it also saying the name could stay the same if the trademark is added at the end, and credit is giving somewhere at least one in the game? Not sure if that could cause future problems down the road or not. Would making a book that you could learn the recipe from, with it’s name being the companies giving it credit work? OR just putting the credit for them in the item’s description? BUT I don’t know if that would be a good idea and/or cause more/different problems later on.

It’s all interesting to me none the less though.

8

[quote=“deoxy, post:6, topic:14020”]…

Also, when did they trademark it, and when did it end up in the game (should be determinable from the source archive, I would think)? If it was provably in the game first, they can take a hike.

…[/quote]

Filing Date July 27, 1970
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 1042544
Registration Date June 29, 1976

I think they did it first

9

As deoxy points out, just because they hold a trademark doesn’t mean they “own” the word. We arent selling a competing product or anything similar, therefore we aren’t infringing their trademark.

Defence against infringement is required, sending people demand letters when they so much as mention your product is not.

Having said that, the comments that the item isn’t accurately described as a vacutainer have merit, we can certainly change it to something like “blood draw kit” on that basis.

10

That said, is there any use to blood at the moment? Aside from a meal for the desperate.

11

The only use of it know of is as an ingredient in a certain recipe in the Arcana mod, but a few bloody rags can substitute, and there’s a tool that can be used to make you bleed, so it’s not at all necessary…

I think there’s supposed to be some kind of quest using the centrifuge in the hospital that never got finished.

12

The only use of it know of is as an ingredient in a certain recipe in the Arcana mod, but a few bloody rags can substitute, and there’s a tool that can be used to make you bleed, so it’s not at all necessary…

I think there’s supposed to be some kind of quest using the centrifuge in the hospital that never got finished.[/quote]

Yes I’ve gotten this mission, but not completed it. The NPC gives you a vacutainer and tells you to use it on a zombie you kill then take it to a specific centrifuge at a hospital. The one time I did it, the centrifuge had been busted by a brute or something stuck in the room with it, and I looked for another in a different hospital, but that ended me…

Anyway, wouldn’t you just need a tube/vial of blood for the centrifuge… and we already have syringes. Maybe just use a syringe to draw the blood and have a hip flask renamed to a vial or tube, be the container. Or just have a syringe of blood that you take to the centrifuge, and the centrifuge has vials with it.

Maybe you could make some sort of blood draw kit with a syringe, a rubber hose, and a container of some sort.

There are cigars in the game, maybe some could be fancy with a glass tube similar to a chemistry tube or vial.

I did see a post about an infinite blood exploit as well, over in the bugs section of the forum. http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=14748.0

13

reads Well, I had no idea vacutainers was even a real life thing, much less a registered trademark. This game is good advertisement for them, honestly! Since I only knew what it was from playing the game. I can’t understand IP laws and protection of ‘interlectual’ property. hopefully we can evolve to a post copyright society, maybe when the robots take over

14

I came in here all ready to be like “fuck the man keep using it use it harder!” because I’m Chaotic Neutral in real life, but then a quick glance at their C&D letter and I think just changing its name to Vacutainer ® would probably meet their usage guidelines? At a glance, anyway.

15

The whole action from the company is likely a promoting scheme.

16

More or less, they also have some fairly arbitrary usage guidelines. The problem isn’t how onerous the demands are, the problem is that they’re making demands at all. As far as I can tell they have no legal right to make these demands. They’re just relying on people to not stand up for themselves precisely because their demands aren’t ornerous.

17

It’s simple really. Just spell it vacutainr. They don’t hold a trademark on that.

In all seriousness the term itself is somewhat confusing to begin with. I never knew what the thing was without some trial and error whereas “blood draw kit” is intuitive.

18

[quote=“TheWumpus, post:17, topic:14020”]It’s simple really. Just spell it vacutainr. They don’t hold a trademark on that.

In all seriousness the term itself is somewhat confusing to begin with. I never knew what the thing was without some trial and error whereas “blood draw kit” is intuitive.[/quote]

+1

Maybe it’s just because I’m not a native English speaker, the word “vacutainer” means nothing at all. I know “vacuum” and “contain” but the whole thing could easily mean a vacuum cleaner. It’s not as a common name as say, Coca Cola. While there might be many good arguments for taking a stand against cease and desist stuff, I really think the alternative of choosing a descriptive name would improve the game.

19

I’m not suggesting we keep using the term to spite them, just pointing out that while the letter was polite, it wasn’t nice.

I’m in favor of changing to blood draw kit, Gimmie a PR somebody :slight_smile:
(Pretty busy right now, which is why I’m not just doing it)

20

Considering that they almost certainly have some level of “lawyers already on retainer” and we don’t, even bothering to reply (in a legal sense) is more than this is worth to edge cases like this, so yes, they are definitely doing that to some degree.

One weakness with a system like ours (where precedent is important - not saying it’s not the right way to do it, all systems have at least some weaknesses) is the ability to basically bluff your way into something - get enough nobodies like us to cave (because it worth literally nothing to us) over a long enough period of time, and you can sometimes manage to leverage that into a real thing.

It doesn’t help that the opposite of progress is Congress, and our esteemed Congresscritters spend more time handing out favors and lining their pockets than in actually attempting to do their Constitutional duties…

In legal proceedings, “polite” is usually the closest thing to “nice” that exists. We need a “loser pays” system SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO badly.