It would be nice if we could use weight benched, ellipticals, treadmills, etc. to improve our stats/fatigue. Maybe even allow us to exercise without equipment (pushups, situps, etc.). Would make it possible to level up core stats once you have a good source of food and water, and a safe place to rest.
Yeah, the idea is good in theory, but even a few points of strength has a huge difference in gameplay, and exercise to build muscles up to a noticeable extent could take months
I doubt Kevin would go for that.
if we had stats that were like… from 1 to 100, and regular exercise raised your strength by a few points ,then that could be more feasible.
A way of levelling up your stamina a bit by using exercise machines could work though.
you could have a level of fitness where depending on how fit you are you het bonuses to your core stats something like:
-you are now trained so you get 1+ to strength
-you are now well-trained so you get 2+ to strength
-you are now trained like a athleat so you get a 3+ to strength (only achievable after like 2+ years of wilderness survival or the use of steroids)
with the same aplieing to dex and instead of just exercise machines training your stats also other activities like chopping trees, being overencoumbered, running, climbing over thing etc.
this would nicely simulate the fact that your livestyle after the cataclysm is drastically different that the life you had before and would effect your level of fitness and strangth with your stats that you chose at character creation being you natural potential. this should however come at a cost of having a state debuff for the biginning of the game since most people nowadays aren’t exectly trained or fit. and these stats could deteriorate over time if you don’t exersize enough so keeping that 3+ or 4+ strength or dex is difficult.
edit: the level of fitness in any catagory should be spicific for that one stat or stamina so no weightlifting raising you dex as well
Nice idea, but for now it’s not really a priority. I think stats through skills and stats through kills best mimic this, but actual exercise takes months to show results, even if you’re on a steroid cycle.
Also I think 12 in your stat is like the baseline of human limit, that is, as athletic as one could be. Of course you can exceed this but it costs extra points.
lower the maximum of the base state that you can pick to 12 and give certain professions different level of fitness so as a athlet or special forces soldier you are gonna have a 4+ to strength and or dex depending to reflect your pre-cataclysm lifestyle but the chances of you kepping this level of fitness for a longer time is harder unless you actively train or take steroids to boost your gains. it would also be a far more balanced solution than how broke stat through skills is.
As for 12 being the human limit i would like to dissagree 12 would be the limit on human natural potential (we are talking about someone who is freakishly big and possibly has somekind of syndrom/extremely good genetic to get such a level naturally) but this could be pushed further with dedicated training or a phycically active livestyle (such as we see in the cataclysm) to reach what meany would consider freakish or near freakish levels. if you want examples of this than just look up strongman flipping amalances or even trucks, pulling trucks or trains, plains. the reason they are able to reach these levels of strength is becease of intense active training so while 12 should be the max for your natural base level you should be able to push this further without CBM’s or mutegens through training or intense physicly demanding tasks (if youre character does have 12 in strength than you should be one of those strongman).
I have an Idea, there are lots of positive and negative perks which surely have lots of condition in order to be triggered
if a pg has good health from nutrition and other stuff (gammaglobby for example) has a prerequisite to get a Fit perk which gives him some small bonuses for physical activities like running, dodging, bashing with a quarterstaff. In order to gain this perk one must exercise so much and frequently. Exercise equipment could be used when one can’t go out of the shelter for a long time and can keep being fit for longer time.
So I agree when I say that could be pretty difficult to modify the core stats but the perk system could give some aid without doing that stuff, what you say?
really like the idea but is likely to be hard to implement and exploitable and to be honest long before summer is over i have most cbm i want and lot of mutagen and purifier ,athlete need to train for years and strict diet etc so why spend years in game eating only health food and train when mutagen take so little time to make
that depends on personal game styles
one would like to limit oneself by not using cbm and/or mutagens
then well your stuck i understand why you want this but if some make mode will help but now is kind of waste of time there are plenty of bug and problem the need to be fix before adding more feature, adding more to pile will not help
that cbm’s and mutagen are faster ways to improve your stats might be treu however they are much more dangerous and possibly detrimental. this way would be much slower, be much more limited in potential but be completely safe, hopefully come with a health boost (think a higher base health) and add both realism and roleplay potential to the game (think starting hospitale challege as a patient with a 4- to strength and dex at the biggining of the game since you spent years in bed) slowly becoming stronger physically and going from zero to hero thanks to expert playstyle by the player. also i think you overestimate the amount of time and work you would need to see significant results. realistically you don’t need to spent years training and eathing healthely to see significant improvement in stamina, coordination and strength, escpecially if someone is out of shape or didn’t trian (which is the majority of people in the real world or the professions you can pick in the game) suddenly became very phisically active like we see in the game that person would be significantlly fitter after just a few months or a season, possibly even a good bit stronger and agile depending on how out of shape they where and how phisically active they where.
for mutagen got purifier and cbm if you got skill most thing are under 30% so ehh and i never die from them
and playing mutagen is not really bad if you have time you can get 4-5 positive and no negativ using large amount mutagen and purifier and most bad thing are ehh i like +7str i dont really care about the web hand i got or something like the
I like the idea of being able to become super human by pumping endless iron. I feel the end game is a choice between CBM or mutagen, but what about a purity option? While you dissected bio-operators for CBMs, I maintained the perfect balance diet. While you scoured for globs and ammonia, I tended to my garden with 200lbs worth of weights. While you tweaked and toyed with an autodoc, I spend literal days at a time riding my standing bike and reading. While you stride through the end of the world as some abomination against Nature, flesh warped and twisted, I trained my body to put Olympians to shame.
While getting fitter and stronger than olympians is nigh impossible (these people are litterly at the limits of human capability) we do have to keep in mind that most people before the cataclysm where living in a developed industrialised society where they don’t have to be very physically active. than this suddenly changes in a few days and people are forced into a life style that is far more phycically active and demanding. so putting in a systeem where your character starts of unfit, unajusted and untrained (debuffes to starting stats) becoming significantly fitter and stronger in a few weeks/ the first season (gains form training are much higher for untrained people) and becoming slowly more athlethic afterwards untill you platau becease the gains form training decrease the further you go. this would be a nice way to symulate your character adopting to the cataclysm not just through learning new skills but also them adopting phisically to the new livestyle and demants placed on them. possibly even uping the base health valeu that health treants towards or ading a permanent modhyfer to health becease exercise and being fit/trained litterly lowers your risk for anything medical related, it’s the closed thing to a cure all that we know of.
I think you are looking at this from a very narrow point of view.
All-day meleeing zeds with a fire axe would be a much better exercise than any gym.
Just try to fight someone IRL and you will understand what i mean.
Adding to this all the rest heavy cata activity (from carrying heavy loads, to running around all day, to doing construction projects), and you can assume that your typical survivor will be at top physical form 3 months in.
What i wanted to point out is that, if you would be proposing such as system, you would need to take into account all the above as well.
It is probably better to abstract that “everyone is at mid form by default”, and depending on a wide variety of actions, one can see some gains (+1/+2 to STR and something similar for fatigue), but also face similar losses if not doing heavy physical activity
I could see excercise equipment more feasibly used to reduce your characters weight and give a mood boost. Maybe even a multilevel buff that lasts for a while. Something like
Fit I: +10% stamina
FitII: +5% stamina, +10 carry weight
FitIII: +1 strength
All of these are measured from the same pool of points that slowly ticks away over time. That way with out maintenance, you’ll lose the strength, but still be somewhat fit.
I could see this getting expanded to different bonuses for cardio equipment versus strength equipment as well.
In a world where caffeine and amphetamines make my character smarter and alcohol makes them stronger I don’t see why we can’t make a pretty soft buff that is a time investment to maintain.
Additionally, we could give drawbacks such as soreness. We all know how debilitating pain is in the game.
Edit: this could all possibly wait until we have an expanded nutrition and medical system. It’s unrealistic to get strong if you’re subsisting on a steady diet of potato chips, cream soda, and multivitamins. The expanded medical system could better integrate these bonuses like the progression of an illness (how infection should be rather than the leap from annoying to debilitating).
Also! Aren’t nearly all arguments about logic rendered useless here? Strength in the game, to the point where you can lift a car, is only possible as a result of the blob mutation. Your character has a slim amount of wiggle room, but I imagine a normal human fitting in between 12-8 and anything above is a bodybuilder to about 14 strength and then you get into the freakish category that only mutation and augmentation can create. (not to be confused with actual ingame mutations, this is just lore). Lifting may build muscle just as well as fighting zombies because the blob cells recognize tissue destruction and seek to make their host better equipped, or it does nothing because blob cells only respond to combat-related stresses (perhaps they become activated with short bursts of cortisol or adrenaline present in blood). I think it’s a bit pointless to try and extrapolate this into logic very far.
if you implement a systeem like this i would make seperate point trackers for different stats and stamina, since things like cardio, strength and agility/flexiblity/nimbelness are trained by different things and by different actions. you can lift weights al you want but it isn’t going to do anything for your agility and you can run all you want but it isn’t going to make you that much stronger.
-so different amounts of points are added depending on the activity/training the player is preforming to different point trackers. if the amount of point reaches a certain height you get a increase (or decrease if you didn’t do enough) that stat
-strength: carrying heavy loads or hauling heavy thing around as well as swinging a meelle weapon (is meanly good to keep in form not to trian strength itself), activities such as construction/chopping trees and wood, weight lifting: anything that requires you to exert a good amount of power and strength.
-dexterity: doing thing like walking, running, biking and moving over obstacles as well as fighting and doging as well as training like streaches, yoga or sparing against a NPC: anything that requires you to really move and use your body casing you to get beter sence of balance, greater hand-eye coordination, more flexible and subler joints etc.
-stamina: anything that costs stamina in the game will add to a counter that gradually increases your max stamina point pool and stamina recharge rate.
We should soft cape the increase you can get by making it so that the point counters decrease at a fixed rate for a given period of time but by making it so that the amount of point you get form a given activity or from every activity is reduced the higher the counter is. this is since in real life the more you train the less the gains are so if you are already fit or do strength training the gains you will make from doing that type of training is much less than somebody who is unfit or doesn’t do strength training.
the level of fitness or training your character should start out with should be determent primeraly by there background so a soldier will start with a addisional +3 stength and dexterity and a higher stamina pool do to being phisically fit and having undergone rigerus training pre-cataclysm while your everage overweight survivor being unfit and most likely not being very phisically active pre-cataclysm having a minor debuff to initial strength and dex (-1) and having a smaller stamina pool. all this should be adjustable within reason in character creation prefurably being picked in the traits section and either being lowert to increase trait points or being higher at the cost of trait points. with a limit since a athleat isn’t going to be unfit and a priest simply can’t have the time and livestyle to be in olympian shape. this would add extra chalange in the beginning of the game and to certain challages and backgrounds while also allowing new way to improve your character further into the game.
now as for what the cap should be i would say that the absolute limit to how much you can improve above youre initiale base states (your natural base ability) i would say about 4-5 for the stats but this should only be attainable through dedicated training and steriod abuse or by living a complete wilderness survival and therefor being very physically active basically every waking minute and doing heavy phisical work on a daily basis, but your normal survivor or scavenger would only gain 2-3 before they are soft locked by not doing enough and 3 would be a survivor either using steroids or making it part of his daily ritual to spent a few hours training. I also base this on the fact that i beleave the absolute limit of human strength lies at about 16 but than we are talking powerlifters, carfliping bolderlifting washingmachinetrowing strongman that have strength comparebol to that of a chimp, basically freakish strength. the same goes for dex. so to prevent people form having 18 strength right out of the gate i would suggest bringing the max valeus for stating stats or inate stats down to 12 and make the point cost for certain professions very high so you can have a 16 strength 12 dex powerlifter but they are gonna have very little if any points to spent on positive traits and probebly need a intelligence of 6 and perception of 4. you might also add a negative motifier to another stat since if you are pusing you body so far in one direction with either strength or dexterity than the other might suffer as a result (muscels getting so big that they start to hinder movement or joints so flexible and muscels so streched that they lose some of their strength).
I don’t know if it makes sense to do this for intelligence and perception to since they seem less obvious in how you would improve them and how much you could increase them.
Are you saying the physical stats should soft cap out at 4-5 above base, period? Because it’s already very easy to get 11-12 strength early game and if you can add 4-5 on top of that you’re easily approaching the camp of being stronger than any living human in our world.
Also I was avoiding making it too in depth early because once the framework os there it’ll be easier to tweak in a couple PRs (I assume), but if you want it to be this well defined thing right now that’s unlikely to happen.
Also I wanted to lump all the “fitness” together, because the definitions of things get fuzzy and arbitrary fast. Does erging count as a dexterity excercise? How about cross-fit? Is running with a heavy pack strength or dexterity? Should we count swimming, because stats through skills already does more than enough for skills like this? How about martial arts?
The way I see it we either make it a small across-the-board buff for “fitness” or we have to design a specific set of buffs for each work out, of which there will be some obvious overlap. Keep in mind if we have the framework in place using one template it likely becomes much easier for it to be copied and expanded on (e.g. martial arts).
Maybe we should track muscle mass, bone density, and cardio separately, instead of a general “fitness” score. Swinging a fireaxe around chopping off zombie heads all day every day will be seriously draining, but will build muscle mass and improve cardio. Carrying a heavy pack all day will strengthen your legs and spine.
Also, to everyone who is saying “becoming the strongest man in the world is unrealistic,” this is a game where an extra-dimensional blob monster turned everyone into zombies, and there are bionic mods that let you eat batteries and crap lightning. You might have to suspend your disbelief a bit.
so this framework could be used to make different buffs/fitness levelf for things like strength, dexterity and stamina?