What's Happening in YOUR Randomly-generated Apocalypse?

[Laughing_Fool]

I feel like the lab challenge has very nicely balanced risk to reward ratio, aside from spawning in places with no way out ( the flooded room or the barracks).

[Coolthulhu]

I feel like the lab challenge has very nicely balanced risk to reward ratio, aside from spawning in places with no way out ( the flooded room or the barracks).

Fix to this one is already PR’d, just waiting for testing+merge. Also fixes spawning in attack range of a turret.

[Azrad]

Found the crater with irridated wanderers and a salon. I’ve seen the place in many previous playthroughs, but this is the first time I saw one after knowing there’s something underground. Should be fun.

[Azrad]

Have found the entrance in the sewers. On the other hand, got roughed up a bit by all the irridated wanderers, giant centipedes and sewer fish. It all adds up and now I regret not bringing all the bandages I’ve had.

[Lexx]

Have found the entrance in the sewers. On the other hand, got roughed up a bit by all the irridated wanderers, giant centipedes and sewer fish. It all adds up and now I regret not bringing all the bandages I’ve had.

I don’t believe the underground part of that has been added yet.

Also on my char I got punched into a raging fire by a brute. Died horribly trying to crawl out of it. Such is life in the apocalypse!

[Azrad]

[quote=“Azrad, post:6244, topic:47”]Have found the entrance in the sewers. On the other hand, got roughed up a bit by all the irridated wanderers, giant centipedes and sewer fish. It all adds up and now I regret not bringing all the bandages I’ve had.

I don’t believe the underground part of that has been added yet.

Also on my char I got punched into a raging fire by a brute. Died horribly trying to crawl out of it. Such is life in the apocalypse![/quote]

Well, dang. Shame. On the bright side, there’s some decent loot. Lots of 5.56 NATO, plus a working humvee… while I can’t drive the thing outta there, I can take it down piece by piece.

[Random_dragon]

Odd. I known the necropolis does have mapgen files for underground areas, so there’s still something down there. >w>

[Azrad]

One heck of a close call. Didn’t pay attention to the NPC I encountered, specifically the weapon he was holding. Since I had a lot of human bones, but no human flesh, I decided to turn him into ingredients… then I ate a shotgun to the face. Somehow, I survive by a hair (head was at “:”) and somehow only at 20 pain. Managed to finish him off with my fancy pants rapier and butcher him and then go back to base to recover.

Of course, I somehow forgot to pick up the human flesh.

[DeWolf]

[quote=“Azrad, post:6248, topic:47”]One heck of a close call. Didn’t pay attention to the NPC I encountered, specifically the weapon he was holding. Since I had a lot of human bones, but no human flesh, I decided to turn him into ingredients… then I ate a shotgun to the face. Somehow, I survive by a hair (head was at “:”) and somehow only at 20 pain. Managed to finish him off with my fancy pants rapier and butcher him and then go back to base to recover.

Of course, I somehow forgot to pick up the human flesh.[/quote]
Sounds like when one of my guys walked half asleep into a zombear. He one shoted me D:

[acidia]

The lower levels of necropolis can only be accessed in the experimental builds. Other than that, if you found the stash of weapons/ammo then you found the right staircase. There is also the very low probability that a different underground map feature overwrote the map tile directly underneath the stairs.

[Laughing_Fool]

Is the entrance an closed metal door in the sewers? I have necropolis on my map too but couldn’t find how to enter the underground vault.

[Azrad]

There’s another entrance to find in the sewers. Pretty hard to find since there’s no indicator of where to look. You’ll be going through a pretty big sewer system filled with irridated wanderers and all. However, if you’re close, the map will say sewer? instead of sewer, and if you’re there I think the map becomes cavern.

[deoxy]

[quote=“Laughing Fool, post:6241, topic:47”]I feel like the lab challenge has very nicely balanced risk to reward ratio, aside from spawning in places with no way out ( the flooded room or the barracks).

Fix to this one is already PR’d, just waiting for testing+merge. Also fixes spawning in attack range of a turret.[/quote]

Yay, and YAY! That second one is SO SO SO annoying.

[quote=“deoxy, post:6237, topic:47”]OK, that suddenly makes lab escape nigh-impossible, except for the teleporter route. Wow.

As opposed to a cakewalk.
You know, there’s a “challenge” in front of the “lab” in the name. Now it kinda fits there rather than just standing around, being all awkward.

You can also escape with a science id, lucky EMP blast, acetylene torch, strong explosives, probability travel CBM, mapgen oddity (nearby sewer, ant hill or subway), teleglow triggering in the right moment, pickaxe/jackhammer and probably few other creative ways.[/quote]

I’ve played DOZENS of lab challenges, and I’ve seen exactly one “mapgen oddity” exit, no explosives of any kind, no probability travel CBMs, no torches (only EVER found those in a garage, actually), no pickaxes or jackhammers (or the materials needed to make a jackhammer of either kind), and no science IDs (I’ve only ever found those on scientist corpses generated as a map special).

In short, as I originally said, the only viable escape route is the highly random teleporters, with all other methods being “nigh impossible” (at best).

Yes, the current challenge can seem a little bit too easy for someone who knows the game very well, but that’s true of EVERYTHING that is reasonably possible in this game, and I WANT a “challenge” to stay possible, not just hoping for a really good RNG result.

[Coolthulhu]

Yes, the current challenge can seem a little bit too easy for someone who knows the game very well, but that’s true of EVERYTHING that is reasonably possible in this game, and I WANT a “challenge” to stay possible, not just hoping for a really good RNG result.

I need some good ideas then.
NPC letting you out is out at the moment (NPCs can’t use z-levels yet).
A guaranteed science id would make sense, but I’m not sure what would be a good place for it. Also a guaranteed teleporter drop could work the same way. Certainly not in possession of a NPC, unless reaching said NPC would be challenging.
Portal at the bottom of the lab teleporting you to a random place on overmap only makes sense for one type of lab.
Console opening the door could work, but said console would also need a good hiding spot or a tough defense mechanism (not zap or manhack spawn).

While I’d also prefer a non-RNG dependent lab challenge, I’d much rather have a moderately-low RNG-dependent concrete lab than “you will win if you reach lvl 0 at night” drywall lab.

[Random_dragon]

I would suggest hiding some goodies like a science ID or teleporter at the bottom of the lab. Since you usually spawn more in the middle, this would encourage players to risk diving deeper THEN heading for the surface. o3o

[Rivet]

I would suggest hiding some goodies like a science ID or teleporter at the bottom of the lab. Since you usually spawn more in the middle, this would encourage players to risk diving deeper THEN heading for the surface. o3o

This is good!

If we add a guaranteed spawn of a dead scientist with an ID card in the finale room, it provides an exit with the requirement being that you have to venture to the deepest level of the ‘dungeon’.

[Random_dragon]

If anything, that would be a good reason to explore the lab in full whether you visit it willingly OR start there. While there’s a lot of potential for goodies like CBMs, it’s all quite random. I’ve had labs full of worthless (to the current character) junk, some labs with mind-blowing loot, some with useful yet mundane goods available elsewhere, etc. o3o

[deoxy]

[quote=“deoxy, post:6253, topic:47”]Yes, the current challenge can seem a little bit too easy for someone who knows the game very well, but that’s true of EVERYTHING that is reasonably possible in this game, and I WANT a “challenge” to stay possible, not just hoping for a really good RNG result.

I need some good ideas then.
NPC letting you out is out at the moment (NPCs can’t use z-levels yet).
A guaranteed science id would make sense, but I’m not sure what would be a good place for it. Also a guaranteed teleporter drop could work the same way. Certainly not in possession of a NPC, unless reaching said NPC would be challenging.
Portal at the bottom of the lab teleporting you to a random place on overmap only makes sense for one type of lab.
Console opening the door could work, but said console would also need a good hiding spot or a tough defense mechanism (not zap or manhack spawn).

While I’d also prefer a non-RNG dependent lab challenge, I’d much rather have a moderately-low RNG-dependent concrete lab than “you will win if you reach lvl 0 at night” drywall lab.[/quote]

Fair enough, though building a homewrecker while still not too weak from starvation is still a decent challenge a good portion of the time (barring RNG win).

I would suggest not having ONE auto-escape option, but several possible, perhaps with one guaranteed, or perhaps just really like to get at least one, but seldom several.

The teleport option, for instance, is not literally guaranteed (that I can tell), but I’ve never seen a lab challenge lab without at least one.

Personally, I would add the science ID as a very rare drop to all scientists - makes more sense, really.

Some kind of master “open EVERYTHING” switch at the bottom, sometimes (with the downside being… it’s EVERYTHING - that shoggoth? Make sure you remember where it was and stay away on your way up!).

A “teleport to a random world location” thing does make sense for some types of labs… but it should have some serious risk, too (based on the lore).

SOME labs being normal walls at the top (but not all) would also make sense.

In short, you need to make the “challenge” be something that you have to figure out, not just know in advance.

[Coolthulhu]

In short, you need to make the “challenge” be something that you have to figure out, not just know in advance.

This one is not doable. At least not without good examples.

The rest sound OK.
Except that drywall labs - those are simply too easy and will get even more so with Z-level fields (you could set a fire and then go downstairs and wait it out).

[deoxy]

[quote=“deoxy, post:6258, topic:47”]In short, you need to make the “challenge” be something that you have to figure out, not just know in advance.

This one is not doable. At least not without good examples.[/quote]

What I meant by that WAS the examples I gave - you might know what all the possible routes out are (like the list I just made, as an example), but you won’t know in advance which ones are available to you this particular game. That’s all I meant.

Teleporting out would be the fallback position, I would think (due to the random/dangerous nature and teleporting and the trap skill grinding), but does THIS lab have the world teleport at the bottom? Or does it have a cache of IDs somewhere? Or… you get the idea.

Even bashable walls (I do agree on the fire solution being WAY too easy, as you said) aren’t necessarily too easy, if you don’t know that’s the expected way out, as you have to work towards that pretty hard if you want to get out in a reasonable time (to not be too weak from hunger to bash them down), barring RNG luck, of course (long rope for the EASY homewrecker, or some significant food find).