I think a melee weapon that can reach more than a tile away would be impractical for a lone survivor, in all but specific circumstances that won’t happen much.
I’d save that for when NPC AI is good enough that you can gather a bunch of people into a formation and form a spear wall.
Then we probably need shield wielding implemented before doing that.
[quote=“Synthetic, post:21, topic:8441”]I think a melee weapon that can reach more than a tile away would be impractical for a lone survivor, in all but specific circumstances that won’t happen much.
I’d save that for when NPC AI is good enough that you can gather a bunch of people into a formation and form a spear wall.
Then we probably need shield wielding implemented before doing that.[/quote]
Chain link fence.
Metal bars, and those are buildable now.
Pits and such.
There are legitimate uses for pounding; whether they’re worth coding is another story, but I’d be willing to consider merging 'em.
Polearms would be excellent for a “home alone” boobytrapped home defense.
Volume and weight isn’t important because you can just leave them laying around your base.
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:14, topic:8441”]When thinking about reach, please consider that squares are roughly a meter across. With a shortspear (which is all we have in the game), you don’t have a meter of reach.
We could add a longspear that works like the whip, but keep in mind it’s going to be huge and super slow.[/quote]one square is a meter, so normal cars are an entire 4 meters across? IRL Figures seem to suggest they’re around 2ish last i checked, but i guess it can be eschewed.
I think some more functional ability could reflect the use of spears better, for instance, getting nearly free attacks on enemiesenemies who attempt to close in on you, or allowing martial Trip manuevers usable with spears when you have the martial art enabled, like when Brawling gives melee weapons Power Attack.
[quote=“Synthetic, post:21, topic:8441”]I think a melee weapon that can reach more than a tile away would be impractical for a lone survivor, in all but specific circumstances that won’t happen much.
-snip-[/quote]
I disagree in regards to the spear. Something like a chain, morningstar or bullwhip sure no question. Space is needed to make the bad boy do the bad stuff.
On the other hand a bo staff, spear or great sword is going to be deadly even close up in the right hands. Perfect conditions? Of course not, but the lone survivor who has studied many books on fabrication and been the victor in many melee encounters with the undead would have a good idea on how to construct something that is deadly at many different ranges, with long range being the strongest. (sorry for run on sentence, lotssa beer and champagne at the Jarlaxle household. Happy New YearS!)
We specifically deny that one square == one meter because that breaks down rather rapidly. It can be helpful as a last resort, but we make no effort to enforce it.
Yeah, generally houses don’t come with 1 meter thick walls. Especially not with 1 meter thick internal, non-structural walls.
Yeah, generally houses don’t come with 1 meter thick walls. Especially not with 1 meter thick internal, non-structural walls.[/quote]Even treating it as an abstraction, the same model would mean a majority of rooms are more than seven meters across, give or take.
Speaking of which, cataclysm needs more “smaller” houses and smaller bedroom. Both cramming higher quantities in their respective volumes.
[quote=“Jarlaxle, post:25, topic:8441”][quote=“Synthetic, post:21, topic:8441”]I think a melee weapon that can reach more than a tile away would be impractical for a lone survivor, in all but specific circumstances that won’t happen much.
-snip-[/quote]
I disagree in regards to the spear. Something like a chain, morningstar or bullwhip sure no question. Space is needed to make the bad boy do the bad stuff.
On the other hand a bo staff, spear or great sword is going to be deadly even close up in the right hands. Perfect conditions? Of course not, but the lone survivor who has studied many books on fabrication and been the victor in many melee encounters with the undead would have a good idea on how to construct something that is deadly at many different ranges, with long range being the strongest. (sorry for run on sentence, lotssa beer and champagne at the Jarlaxle household. Happy New YearS!)[/quote]
Pretty much.
Works for greatswords too.
Yeah, there’s an entire school of combat based on half-handing greatswords. It’s really good for massed enemies and tight quarters.
[quote=“Muaddib, post:29, topic:8441”]Pretty much.
Works for greatswords too.[/quote]
So uhm, on this point I have to agree with Kevin. Here’s the deal with spears and holding them as far from the spearhead as possible to maximize range. It makes them a lot harder to use effectively especially as stabbing weapons. A spear essentially is a rod some with a spearhead some just a sharpened end. The ones with just a sharpened end will suffer less than the ones with a spearhead, but they all suffer from some negative effects. First of all, the further your arms are from the business end the worse the transfer of energy from your arms motion to the end of the spear. This is partially due to the spear warping as it impacts it’s target, almost any weapon that isn’t basically a rock or a ball of steel suffers from this to some degree, but the longer the distance between the application of force and the spot where there is a resisting force the more energy you’ll lose to this warping(this is very visible when watching a fencing match, though those ‘rapiers’ are very flimsy on purpose, or generally with swords that have been used a lot for stabbing attacks, and as a result have a crooked blade). Even a mighty claymore can suffer from this, though if you are trying to stab with a claymore I think you are missing the point of the weapon. In any case this warp will make your attacks a lot less effective against anything with some armor and just generally less effective even against flesh. A wooden spear might even break after a few times, depending on your strength.
Secondly, your precision will suffer a lot. The further from the business end you apply the force to keep your weapon aimed at the right spot the more every tiny motion will influence your aim. Of course this isn’t too much of a problem, but not having a proper aim at where your spear is gonna hit can be a big factor if said target is armored.
Thirds, we have angular force to deal with. If you hold a spear near the middle it’d be fairly easy to balance it and even with a fairly heavy spearhead it wouldn’t be hard to balance it with the length of the shaft behind your arms(Ie keeping the center of mass between the position of your hands, like normal with spears). Ensuring you keep your spear aimed properly. Now you hold that spear at max range, the center of mass is quite a distance away from you and you’ll have to put a lot more effort into fighting gravity to keep that spear pointed in the right direction. Which in turn also aggravates the problem mentioned in the previous point.
Try it out for yourself find a broom(Or even better something with a more modest business end) pick it up and hold it like a spear, hands close and balanced around the center of gravity, and now grab the broom in a similar fashion as close to the top as you can.
All in all it would make things a lot harder to wield and use the spear effectively. Also did anyone notice how the naginata, the only ‘spear’ that is commonly wielded with most of the length in front of the arms, is used and designed more as a slashing weapon than a stabbing weapon. That might be on purpose, given how stabbing weapons react when you try the same.
No offense mate, but I think that actual history (as in the stories of people that used spears everyday as part of their survive-or-die job) shows you’re completely wrong.
No offense mate, but I think that actual history (as in the stories of people that used spears everyday as part of their survive-or-die job) shows you’re completely wrong.[/quote]
It’s not armchair military history talk. You clearly didn’t read(just the last sentence doesn’t count) or you don’t understand the concept of physics, as the vast majority of the content is actually rather simple physics.
And grabbing a spear by the end makes it much harder to handle, that’s a simple fact.
On a side note: No offence mate does not work if from the very outset your post is offensive. Just like it doesn’t work when you say sorry right after hitting someone in the face.
No offense mate, but I think that actual history (as in the stories of people that used spears everyday as part of their survive-or-die job) shows you’re completely wrong.[/quote]
Ok I did lol, like literally, but come one man, lets people express themselves.
He brought up some good food for thought, so yeah. Drunk posting in the mornings FTW!
No offense mate, but I think that actual history (as in the stories of people that used spears everyday as part of their survive-or-die job) shows you’re completely wrong.[/quote]
It’s not armchair military history talk. You clearly didn’t read(just the last sentence doesn’t count) or you don’t understand the concept of physics, as the vast majority of the content is actually rather simple physics.[/quote]
It is indeed basic physics that you’re misinterpreting here. The energy isn’t “lost” to warping. it is simply stored in the spring and re-released once the spear straightens (provided it doesn’t break).
As for handling, any spear that doesn’t have a very heavy top (i.e. isn’t a halberd or the like) is actually quite easy to handle when you grip it quarter of the way from the blunt end and lean it against your elbow (along your forearm) and use it primarily for thrusting.
For fancier moves require better training, google chinese spear techniques to see what you can do with one.
Also, zweihanders can be gripped half-handled if you have gauntlets or some other hand protection, if i recall correctly. This would make them also somewhat viable in poinr-blank range.
It’s fairly common for a rather large number of greatsword types to not be sharpened all the way up the blade. It’s meant for just this purpose, and also to grab the blade end and crush someones helmet with the pommel.
I went to a practice with twohander in a german style and learned that pommel and hilt attacks are perfectly viable, that most attacks are from above or an undercut and that the basic stance easy turns the sword into a full body parry by holding the handle by your head and letting the blade follow your side downwards at your shoulder.
I went to a practice with twohander in a german style and learned that pommel and hilt attacks are perfectly viable, that most attacks are from above or an undercut and that the basic stance easy turns the sword into a full body parry by holding the handle by your head and letting the blade follow your side downwards at your shoulder.[/quote]
You hit a dude in the head and there’s a decent chance you’re going to give him a concussion. Pommel strikes are absolutely brutal.
[quote=“terrachronos, post:33, topic:8441”]It’s not armchair military history talk. You clearly didn’t read(just the last sentence doesn’t count) or you don’t understand the concept of physics, as the vast majority of the content is actually rather simple physics.
And grabbing a spear by the end makes it much harder to handle, that’s a simple fact.[/quote]
It’s a spear. It’s not a rod that’s two lightyears long. Any kind of (physics) issues with wielding a 1,5-2m long polearm are solved by getting buff and combat training, as mankind has done for probably 10,000 years of spear fighting.