Skill Rust - Which Option Do You Play With?

[quote=“raccoon, post:35, topic:7911”]The game is balanced so that having about 7 levels in a skill makes you an expert, and 10 levels makes you world class expert. If your character actually uses a skill naturally in his/her daily life, they’ll attain world-class skill in less than a year, and keep it. If you don’t use it all the time, then you still are able to get an expert level of skill, eventually.

Skill rust only seems annoying if you’re grinding and micro-managing those skills. If anything, becoming a world-class expert seems too easy.[/quote]
This is actually something I wanted to bring up. In my opinion skill rust isn’t the problem, excessively easy skill gains are. Right now you can become a professional chemist in like 2 days.

I wish there was a “realistic” skill-gain option that both reduces your skill gain to reasonable levels.

[quote=“Bonevomit, post:41, topic:7911”]This is actually something I wanted to bring up. In my opinion skill rust isn’t the problem, excessively easy skill gains are. Right now you can become a professional chemist in like 2 days.

I wish there was a “realistic” skill-gain option that both reduces your skill gain to reasonable levels.[/quote]

Maybe take the Slow Learner trait?

[quote=“Whaley, post:42, topic:7911”][quote=“Bonevomit, post:41, topic:7911”]This is actually something I wanted to bring up. In my opinion skill rust isn’t the problem, excessively easy skill gains are. Right now you can become a professional chemist in like 2 days.

I wish there was a “realistic” skill-gain option that both reduces your skill gain to reasonable levels.[/quote]

Maybe take the Slow Learner trait?[/quote]

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In this case, it seems like for me IntCap would be the best option, then.

Now, I just have to figure out if I should play with NPCs or not…

Off,definitely off.

[quote=“Bonevomit, post:41, topic:7911”][quote=“raccoon, post:35, topic:7911”]The game is balanced so that having about 7 levels in a skill makes you an expert, and 10 levels makes you world class expert. If your character actually uses a skill naturally in his/her daily life, they’ll attain world-class skill in less than a year, and keep it. If you don’t use it all the time, then you still are able to get an expert level of skill, eventually.

Skill rust only seems annoying if you’re grinding and micro-managing those skills. If anything, becoming a world-class expert seems too easy.[/quote]
This is actually something I wanted to bring up. In my opinion skill rust isn’t the problem, excessively easy skill gains are. Right now you can become a professional chemist in like 2 days.

I wish there was a “realistic” skill-gain option that both reduces your skill gain to reasonable levels.[/quote]

Right now, I have to practice throwing more than 60 times before I can throw a spear at a zombie and make the pointy end hit that zombie half the time. It already takes too long to attain basic proficiency with skills, so a flat reduction in skill gain might not be for the best.

I shared an idea on how skill gains and skill rust could be adjusted, with three goals in mind:
–Make it easier to attain basic competence in a skill.
–Make it a realistically long-term goal to become an expert.
–Make skill rust less grindy.

My example:

[u]Level 1: Basic familiarity:[/u] You've tried a skill only a handful of times, or studied it for 25 minutes. You can finally swing a knife without cutting yourself. You can finally stick a target with the pointy end of a spear when throwing it, but not reliably. You can thread a needle, and kind of know how to patch torn clothes.

Level 4: Basic competence: You’ve tried a skill about 100 times, or studied it a few hours. (since the game year is compressed to 56 days, this seems fair). You can reliably hit a shambling zombie with a knife. You can throw a spear, and reliably hit a real target (like a zombie) pointy-end first. You can identify basic stitches (overcast, running stitch, etc.), know which is best for each situation, and know the properties of fabrics (breathability, strength, etc.).

Level 7: Expertise: You practiced a skill almost 1000 times, or studied it for more than 50 hours. You can very reliably use self-defense techniques like parrying, feinting, and counter-attacks. You can throw a spear or throw a rock, and hit a moving target from 50 meters or so. You can invent special, kevlar-reinforced survivor gear with minimal encumbrance.

Level 10: A leading world expert: You’re in it for the long haul. You challenged yourself in a skill thousands of times, or studied it few hours per day every day for several game years. You can reliably beat even expert fencers, and have revolutionized the art of fencing. The speed and accuracy of your throwing could put the pitchers in Major League Baseball to shame (if they weren’t all undead). You create articles of clothing which always combine mobility, functionality, protection, and fashion all at once.

Maybe even then, you become an expert rather fast. But at least you won’t become an expert chemist before spring of the first year is done.

Is there a way to change the type of skill rust mid-game?

I played with IntCap with 0.A but now I use off for 0.B because of the crafting changes.

Likewise. While I like both the concept of skill rust and the changes to the “crafting XP” system, their combination turns the apocalyptic adventure into the daily life of a worker in a recycling facility where the employees are real dicks towards each other. Of course you could play the game without worrying too much about getting the end game stuff fast, but then there are so many players who by the end of the first summer have anime level huge guns, bionics coming out of their ears and more mutations than Charles Xavier’s book of fond memories constantly asking the developers to make the game more challenging, that you end up having to do the “gamier” stuff in order to get anything done.

If you’re interested in ideas about skill rust, then here’s mine:
Have the restrictions on actions check the highest level a character has had, while the success rate is affected by the rust. That way skill rust still slows the rate by which characters gain new aptitude, but it doesn’t require the player to stick to complicated and tedious training regiment to avoid losing progress. Skill books could be used to reduce the effect rust has on the success rate, as it makes sense that having a book, where you can check things up, would help those who have already once taken the time to understand the procedure.

Somehow skill rust on combat skills hasn’t felt as negative as it’s been on crafting skills. Probably because doing anything other than sitting in a basement requires you to use them to some degree and the effect of having a skill of 2 in melee and bashing instead of 5 is less restricting than having the difference in, say, tailoring.

An item you once crafted you can craft again(or die trying) regardless of your skill… or so i think my skills flucruate due to me seting rust to int… but i am not yset sure. i ll try .
If someone knows for sure tell me before i use my time trying myself :stuck_out_tongue:

If it is like i think it is you do not unlearn major improvements in a crafting skill (recepies or how to build a crossbow) but maybe you ll have a harder time next you try it if your skill has been neglected.

So meele skills and for example mechanics? are definatly another thing because you can pretty fast unlearn major milestones in your development like techniques in meele or how the hell did i manage to atach that solarpannel yesterday?

Off. Because of reasons already said.
The suggestions ITT are really nice! That skill level chart especially catches my interest.

I tend to turn skill rust off. Maybe I’ll turn it on when skill rust actually makes sense in a realistic point of view,

I totally don’t exploit Forgetful when skill rust is off. NOOOOOO HAHAHA

It already makes sense. It just isnt perfectly acurat.

Oh? It really doesn’t make sense in a realistic point of view as I was saying. For example, if I’ve been forging swords for all my life and I soon become an expert at doing so (Fabrication 8 or something), I just don’t find it generaly realistic for me to suddenly forget my great skills because I haven’t made a sword for a few days. It just doesn’t… work.

Therefore I think skill rust should be the opposite to the current system: at low levels you should easily forget skills, but at high levels the skills should stick with you.

Additionally, although it probably isn’t codable, I don’t see how Int-based skill rust works with skills such as melee. I don’t need to be clever to remember how to deliver a sweet Chuck Norris kick, I just need to master my technique - and that would be based on STR or DEX.

But yeah, I don’t think it’s a feature that should be in there. Both due to gameplay experience of rolling my eyes to see that my tailoring skill is going down because I haven’t repaired my panties today, and due to the unrealistic aspect of that. I know CDDA isn’t all about realism (ITS A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE WITH FUCKIN CRABS N’ SHIT) but I still have no enjoyment playing with skill rust on for those reasons.

The feature just needs a little rework, that’s all!

So you can t forge a sword you forged before if you lose the nessesary skill lvl? (still haven t tried myself)
Also if you just got good enough to attempt to forge this said sword at lvl 8 you may still fail to craft it cause your just at the edge of the nessesary skill lvl.
When you have mastered forging this sword you ll be at skill lvl 10 and thus will be able to flawlessly forge it again even if you don t to0uch the skill at all for a month or so (unless you got like int 8 then maybe a lil faster)

And as i said if its to fast its not acurate. but losing skill is realistic.

Anything you remember has to do with your brain. Even what one calls muscle memory is stored there… theres just no other place. Thus if int is a general value of your memory, thought process efficiency,creativety and such it will have an effect on all your skill.

Also concerning gameplay realism isn t always the most fun thing.

people forget.

edit:

Maybe someone can add a setting for skill rust scaling like we have for monster spawn so people can adjust the speed to theire liking.

*additionaly if skillrust is turned off all related traites should be removed .

I can’t remember where I left my keys half the time let alone constructing homemade nuclear reactors.

“So where did I put the coolant rod, uh oh.”

Could someone explain objectively what are the difference between int-cap and int please?
I would understand them to choose wisely.

Thanks a lot for answer :slight_smile:

[quote=“MarcoVGnG, post:57, topic:7911”]Could someone explain objectively what are the difference between int-cap and int please?
I would understand them to choose wisely.

Thanks a lot for answer :)[/quote]

Both use your characters int to scale down the effect of skill rust. Meaning the more int you have the slower your skills will dgrade.
Additionally intcap will not let you lose lvls while with only int you ll lose a lvl once a skill thats at .00 degrades.

Both use your characters int to scale down the effect of skill rust. Meaning the more int you have the slower your skills will dgrade. Additionally intcap will not let you lose lvls while with only int you ll lose a lvl once a skill thats at .00 degrades.

simple and efficient.
Thanks a lot :slight_smile:

Speed of skill rust the way it is is actually realistic. In a way - i mean, the skill gain is very unrealistic in its speed, getting to 10, supposedly world expert at something, takes a dozen days or so.

That said, i play with rust off. Perhaps if both were slower, i would turn it on.