Prosthetic enhancement, because the flesh is weak

[KA101]

[quote=“Logrin, post:20, topic:8715”]Having prosthetic legs and suddenly getting HUGE mutations should be a problem…

Also what’s the thought on powered armor? Would it even work with a robo-dood inside of it?[/quote]

Mutagen would at most make you the (not-yet-)Broken Cyborg, I’d imagine. I’ll grant a Mech-Aug threshold and have it cancel mutagen use, whether functionally or for IN/bionic skill check have you realize it’s a liability and put it back down.

Doubletech PA probably would NOT work as the interface can’t handle all the data needed to move the suit (otherwise it already would do so and the PA Interface augs would let you wear skintight gear inside the suit). The RM13 suit isn’t subject to PA restrictions and would work as well as it already does.

[Logrin]

…Also, do you guys remember Kinetica? Sacrificing utility/firepower/practicality would be worth it to become a living sports bike.

And didn’t zombie technicians get a magnetic special recently? That could be interesting to play around with.

Would also be worth considering Military Grade Cyberbodies as being HUGE (And an avenue for cybears to get limbs) Pretty much just a human head nestled into the cargo loader from Aliens, but with guns.

And it should go without mention some factions should have access to this stuff when all is said and done. XEDRA comes to mind…

[Synthetic]

KA101 and Logrin are right about prosthetic strength vs character strength. Not sure about the best way to fix that. Maybe prosthetic legs would have a weight carrying limit of their own. If the player’s base weight carrying ability is higher than the leg, it is reduced to match the leg’s carrying limit. If the leg can carry more than the player, then there is no change. Basically, whichever limit is lower becomes the player’s weight carrying limit. Prosthetic arms would work similar, but instead of weight alone, they would work with strength. Possibly that check would only be made with the second prosthetic arm installment. Alternatively, strength could become a new averaged number between the player’s base stat and the first prosthetic arm’s until a second is added.

[quote=“Funk, post:18, topic:8715”]If it was only your brain left then you’ll only need a small amount of stomach to absorb the nutrients.
So then why would keep the extra stomach? it’s taking up space you could use for Bionics.[/quote]

The human stomach is already really small. A prosthetic torso without a braincase assumes that the player still has some non-artificial organs remaining, which includes the digestion system. There would not be a second stomach unless installed as a bionic. If the player does have a braincase installed and has crossed the robot threshhold, then the player’s body is assumed to be entirely artificial. This also would mean only one stomach; a stomach that is artificial and extracts what little the brain needs, then uses the rest as fuel.

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:19, topic:8715”]Actually this very neatly solves the mutation interaction problem, to have advanced amounts of bionics, you have to have prosthetoc limbs, which cancels out any limb-based mutations.
However you should still be able to be some manner of cy-bear.[/quote]
And that’s where having different kinds of prosthetics available will come in.

[Logrin]

Part of me wants to say no to exotic prosthetics, especially if they’ve a direct analogue in the mutation tree (No robo-spider legs or tentacles for example) Elective limb replacement–especially high end ones–would likely either mimic the human form or be purely a case of function over form.

I could for instance see replacing an arm with what amounts to little more than a self-stabilizing mount for firearms, an industrial welder or even a portable fire hose. Even legs that fold in on themselves to become wheels and whole bodies being conditioned for extremes of hot or cold.

Mostly the mindset that CBMs and elective prosthetic bodies/limbs are all tools (EXPENSIVE TOOLS) geared towards the military and workforce. Plus I think there’d be a bit of a phantom limb problem with baseline humans controlling tentacles or squids making do with an infinitely less lissome arm.

[Darkfirephoenix]

[quote=“Logrin, post:24, topic:8715”]Part of me wants to say no to exotic prosthetics, especially if they’ve a direct analogue in the mutation tree (No robo-spider legs or tentacles for example) Elective limb replacement–especially high end ones–would likely either mimic the human form or be purely a case of function over form.

I could for instance see replacing an arm with what amounts to little more than a self-stabilizing mount for firearms, an industrial welder or even a portable fire hose. Even legs that fold in on themselves to become wheels and whole bodies being conditioned for extremes of hot or cold.

Mostly the mindset that CBMs and elective prosthetic bodies/limbs are all tools (EXPENSIVE TOOLS) geared towards the military and workforce. Plus I think there’d be a bit of a phantom limb problem with baseline humans controlling tentacles or squids making do with an infinitely less lissome arm.[/quote]
A tentacle arm that has the form of a normal human arm if not needed maybe?
Or a normal arm as base with smaller tentacles added to with grabbing pieces so you can do multiple things at the same time (a la Doc ock) and that allows the tentacles to retrackt into the arm?

I could imagine a scientist with one of those (ofc he would be able to multitask or else he would maybe just make a mess).

Leg parts with integrated stabilisier-hooks/-spikes that deploy if activated, combined with a automatic body lockdown (would lock the whole body so strong in the wanted position that only a speeding car could move a limb) so you can accurately shoot heavy weapons even in burst.

Seems usefull for some heavy weapon soldiers, or for some riot officers (unmoving wall against rioters

A combination of the ideas above maybe for some heavy industrial work/repairs?
Heavy machine breaks down and has to be lifted to be rapaired, so our modified mechanic lifts it up, locks himself into place and starts repairs with the tentacles. No need for a lifting machine and multiple workers (lifting would require hydraulic muscles but holding it up won’t require much besides stability if you lock down)

[Logrin]

The problem with rigidly locking oneself in place is that if you don’t bend–you break. I could see ‘spiking’ prosthetic legs into the ground and getting smashed by a brute/hulk leaving you legless.

As for tentacles, mutation-wise I assume it alters all the myriad of processes needed for you to move a mass of limp, suckered muscle around. (Your brain, nervous system, etc.) Just replacing an arm with cyber spaghetti would quickly impress upon the wielder that they aren’t ambi-ambi-ambi-ambi-dexterous. Most people can’t write with their left hand, let alone their third-noodle-down-to the right–and that’s with a lifetime of practice!

Lifting cars? I could imagine it wouldn’t be anything fancier than a CBM jack. As was said earlier your functional strength should be limited to the least powerful parts of your person (organic or prosthetic) Really strong arms/legs don’t stop you from herniating yourself trying to lift a sedan after all…

As for hydraulic muscles? They’re power hungry. Pretty much meant for short periods of activity.

[Darkfirephoenix]

The problem with rigidly locking oneself in place is that if you don’t bend–you break. I could see ‘spiking’ prosthetic legs into the ground and getting smashed by a brute/hulk leaving you legless.

I was mainly suggesting it in combination of using heavy guns/taking away the killer recoil a normal human can’t handle (to a lower recoil level). As for locking yourself into place for the sake of taking a blow: I can imagine that they would include a mechanism that would prevent/stop the lockdown if the received force is to big to handle (if it would rip you apart).

As for tentacles, mutation-wise I assume it alters all the myriad of processes needed for you to move a mass of limp, suckered muscle around. (Your brain, nervous system, etc.) Just replacing an arm with cyber spaghetti would quickly impress upon the wielder that they aren’t ambi-ambi-ambi-ambi-dexterous. Most people can’t write with their left hand, let alone their third-noodle-down-to the right–and that’s with a lifetime of practice!

That could be solved by some build/programmed in support for usage. Also I’m not talking about sucker clad limbs, I’m talking about tentacles with grabbing claws like Doc Ock form Spiderman has (those also seem a bit “sentient” of their own)

[quote=“Logrin, post:26, topic:8715”]Lifting cars? I could imagine it wouldn’t be anything fancier than a CBM jack. As was said earlier your functional strength should be limited to the least powerful parts of your person (organic or prosthetic) Really strong arms/legs don’t stop you from herniating yourself trying to lift a sedan after all…

As for hydraulic muscles? They’re power hungry. Pretty much meant for short periods of activity.[/quote]
As for this point: It would come in package with the lockdown function.
To be more specific: Augmented muscle functions for full body cyborgs (whole body save head would need to be machine atleast) that could also be used as a jack (or a jack CBM).

As I said LIFTING/MOVING is hard and would take some power (hydraulic muscles), but keeping in place is easy and the lockdown would be used for keeping it in place.
Also: Who wants to lift the whole thing if you can just lift a side up to do the work needed?

Why have many small CBMs that only do their own thing, if you have two big CBMs that can do the jobs of all the small ones and would in total take less space? Ofc such things would be limited to near/full body cyborgs.

[Logrin]

I like the idea that was put forth earlier where the main reason for borging oneself is to make room for CBMs. Maybe make it so that limbs that perform as tools/weapons or have specific functions lack (or at the very least lack much room) for the installation of CBMs. Perhaps even limit select wearable CBMs to certain limbs?

[Barhandar]

Having both cyborg kits (necessary frameworks for CBMs working together) and prosthetic limbs would be nice.

For example: you can have a finger laser without cyborg kit just fine, for strength augment you’d need limb + torso cyborg kitting (spine/bone reinforcement and the like), and to have Fusion Blaster without losing function of second arm you’d need a prosthetic. Perhaps even some super-advanced biotech prosthetics that can heal by themselves, using different material - so you’d have to “eat” metal.

Similar for the rest: subdermal filament would be installable just so, armor plating would require cyborg kit. Retractive lenses just so, eye replacement (i.e. nightvision) cyborg-kitted.

And for CBM limit, have cyborg kits be also processing units - for example, if you’d have toolkit plus finger laser, you might fumble on low intelligence and get the wrong thing, consuming a little bit of power, but if you’ve got cyborg kit, there’s no fumbling.

[Darkfirephoenix]

I like the idea that was put forth earlier where the main reason for borging oneself is to make room for CBMs. Maybe make it so that limbs that perform as tools/weapons or have specific functions lack (or at the very least lack much room) for the installation of CBMs. Perhaps even limit select wearable CBMs to certain limbs?

I like the idea too.

Why have many small CBMs that only do their own thing, if you have two big CBMs that can do the jobs of all the small ones and would in total take less space? Ofc such things would be limited to near/full body cyborgs.

This would address that: You install many smaller CBMs to for what they do but they would overall take more place than 2 big CBMs. The small ones would need to be strewn all over the (normal) limbs/torso, while the big ones would REQUIRE a artificial limb/torso to be installed simply to their size.

So you trade off many small space eating CBMs which are on all the limbs against 1-2 big ones that are only installed in one place/ARE the limbs (on which you may also add some smaller CBMs too).

Uhhhh base artificial arm with grabbing claw tentacles, which can also weld/solder, saw etc. Sounds nice. How about a arm with integrated injection/blood taking (and analysing) system for doctors? So many things are possible!

[quote=“Barhandar, post:29, topic:8715”]Having both cyborg kits (necessary frameworks for CBMs working together) and prosthetic limbs would be nice.

For example: you can have a finger laser without cyborg kit just fine, for strength augment you’d need limb + torso cyborg kitting (spine/bone reinforcement and the like), and to have Fusion Blaster without losing function of second arm you’d need a prosthetic. Perhaps even some super-advanced biotech prosthetics that can heal by themselves, using different material - so you’d have to “eat” metal.

Similar for the rest: subdermal filament would be installable just so, armor plating would require cyborg kit. Retractive lenses just so, eye replacement (i.e. nightvision) cyborg-kitted.

And for CBM limit, have cyborg kits be also processing units - for example, if you’d have toolkit plus finger laser, you might fumble on low intelligence and get the wrong thing, consuming a little bit of power, but if you’ve got cyborg kit, there’s no fumbling.[/quote]
So you mean a “intelligent” cyborg kit that automatically recognises CBMs and takes over the installation for you? I like it.
Ofc military grade CBMs would still require some skill from you as you may have to alter them a bit/deactivate some locks against other ppl using them.

[Synthetic]

I like the idea that was put forth earlier where the main reason for borging oneself is to make room for CBMs. Maybe make it so that limbs that perform as tools/weapons or have specific functions lack (or at the very least lack much room) for the installation of CBMs. Perhaps even limit select wearable CBMs to certain limbs?

Already planned. Exotic prosthetics like the tentacled one I mentioned would be very rare, and probably meant for robots rather than human use. The majority of alternate prosthetics would have specific functions/scenarios in mind. For example, a futuristic equivalent of running legs.

[Barhandar]

[quote=“Darkfirephoenix, post:30, topic:8715”]So you mean a “intelligent” cyborg kit that automatically recognises CBMs and takes over the installation for you? I like it.
Ofc military grade CBMs would still require some skill from you as you may have to alter them a bit/deactivate some locks against other ppl using them.[/quote]
Nope! I mean the required wiring and structural support you’d need to have for some CBMs: it doesn’t do anything by itself, but makes it easier to install and operate CBMs because instead of hotwiring them to your nerves and bones (…somehow) you’re attaching them via proper connections to already-existing support network. The difference, in my beloved associations, between plugging a device into an outlet in a house (cyborg kit) vs. removing isolation on wires from device and generator and twisting them together… while said generator is running (no kit).

[Muaddib]

I already posted this in The Library, but you didn’t post there so I dunno if you’ve seen it. Reposting it. Might have been already discussed. Kind of a flowchart how I imagined CBM’s and mutations interacting.

Since I never put any reverse arrows on it, let’s just say prosthetic, brain-in-a-jar and biomechanical enchancement is a one-way road, no way back.

[Barhandar]

Speeeeaking of brain-cases… isn’t a brain alone too small for the Blob to hijack after death?
Can it work in the steel and silver of a cyborg, or does it absolutely require flesh?

[Muaddib]

I imagine that a brain-in-a-jar can become zombified, but I doubt the Blob will be able to operate the robotic body around the brain-in-a-jar. Seeing how zombies aren’t able to operate complex machinery, I very much doubt the Blob can operate a robotic body.

[TheFlame52]

zombies aren’t able to operate complex machinery

i laughed

[AllisonW]

zombies aren’t able to operate complex machinery

Those shocker zombies operate their bionics just fine, as you may have learned the hard way.

[Barhandar]

Those shocker zombies operate their bionics just fine, as you may have learned the hard way.

Shockers probably don’t and are just full-on constantly electrified (remember that they’re visible in the night?). A better example would be Technicans with their Electromagnetic Unit, or Bio-Operators with Close Quarters Combat. Blob’s really bad at controlling CBMs, but it still can do it. So it presumably could do the robot if it overtook a braincase borg, but not much else.

[AllisonW]

[quote=“AllisonW, post:37, topic:8715”]Those shocker zombies operate their bionics just fine, as you may have learned the hard way.

Shockers probably don’t and are just full-on constantly electrified (remember that they’re visible in the night?). A better example would be Technicans with their Electromagnetic Unit, or Bio-Operators with Close Quarters Combat. Blob’s really bad at controlling CBMs, but it still can do it. So it presumably could do the robot if it overtook a braincase borg, but not much else.[/quote]

Those are also good examples, but the shocker zombie doesn’t just have its reflexive shock, it also has the active chain lightning ability.

[Synthetic]

That’s probably just the zombie flailing its arms wildly in your direction until the CBM fires.