So, I’ve used swords for years, I know the shape I want, the taper, the distribution of mass where the nodes of no vibrations are and even the temper I want - this all learned from swordsmanship.
To get that I’d need to be a better smith. If I was, I’d have no troubles.
The recipe form the martial art, the skill still needed.
Then explain auto learning of recipes? Can’t say something breaks logic if the rest of the entire game is breaking that exact same logic
@Acolyte
You mentioned using a leaf spring ealier as the base material, what is the alloy composition of a leaf spring?
Oddly enough it’s “spring steel”. Not being facetious - that’s what it’s called. All I really have to know is that it’s a high carbon hardenable steel. The axel and any other high wear/high tension part would also work.
Spring steel is the name of a wide range of steels with different alloy comositions and grades of hardness.
Again, you are making my point for me, I’m no blacksmith but I have spent quite a bit of time in the steel industry, specifically in processing recovered steel and preparing blends for smelting. The diffence between medium carbon and high carbon is important to the end product, how would you go about measuring the difference?
Well, I’m not enough of a smith to make a sword either - I mentioned this earlier in this very thread. In game terms my Fabrication isn’t very high.
It also doesn’t matter - I just need a steel that would work and I happen to know this is one of them.
A high Character with high fabrication would be easily able to answer your question.
I have, however seen swords made from leaf springs - can you guess where? Yep, while learning how to swing them.
This is my point - I know the recipe to use, I learned it while learning the martial art. I do not have the fabrication to make one.
I think that most people who learn to swing a weapon would learn the recipe as a matter of practice and think this should be reflected in game.
Quite an assumtion. You knowing something doesn’t mean it’s wide spread knowledge.
Edit: I’ll added can you show me where in one of your martial arts manuals it tells you to do that?
So, someone who has used a sword for years doesn’t know the characteristics of a sword? I’m not talking about smithing one here - that’s a different skill. Just what the sword should be like.
edit: If all you’ve ever done is read the manuals, you haven’t learned the martial art.
You mentioned manuals in your first post.
I imagine they should know the balance, and (at least roughly) the dimensions and weight.
I mentioned the in game manuals. The ones that magically impart a full martial art after a few readings. This would include the experience I mentioned.
If you want to talk about how learning happens in game that’s a different discussion.
Oh, and just to clarify - that’s a really relevant discussion. The whole learning in game could be revamped.
"That’s a reason to nerf “X” not to do “Y”
Fine. Nerf the fucking manuals. Don’t let anyone learn a martial art they didn’t start with and don’t let them start with one without taking at least a melee of 1. Or make it take years and a teacher.
But if I start with a weapons based martial art I should know those recipes
Again, just because you know something doesn’t mean it’s wide spread. Knowledge of one thing doesn’t mean knowledge of another.
You think I wouldn’t like to start with that in a playthrough? I spent months in game on my last ninja run looking for the book to craft katanas. I just don’t think it’s realistic. You should go into it knowing you might not get your weapon of choice early on and plan around that.
And there’s the impasse. I think it’s entirely reasonable not to mention realistic and you do not.
Edit: So, here’s the thing to do. Ask any person who knows these weapons based arts if they would be able to make their weapons IF they were a better smith. We’re talking about the recipe, not the skill. I’m guessing most would say yes.
By your logic there would be no book learned recipes in the game at all.
I want a jackhammer, and my survivor has enough electronics skill to craft one. Does that mean he should be able to develop and engineer a jackhammer all by himself?
My father is a skilled amateur handyman, champion trap shooter, and extremely obsessive on the subject of his inherited shotgun. I can guarantee you he cannot make a new one from scratch.
CDDA’s crafting system is workable but extremely unsatisfactory. Justifications for changes to it based on how it works now are not going to be accepted, because the devs do not like how it works now.
Right, your father isn’t a gunsmith. If he were to learn that skill - or even advanced machining - he would be able.
He knows the recipe, but doesn’t have the skill. This is the point I’ve been making. People who were not obsessive would not have that recipe even if they learned advanced machining. They would need a book.
@Sanehatter: No, no and more no. If someone was a construction worker and used a jackhammer for many years then maybe, but for an office worker who is now trying to survive? I also wouldn’t know how to determine in game how one would be that familiar. Having a martial art or not defines that quite narrowly.
All I am saying - to repeat myself again - is that there absolutely would be recipes and that if you have a weapons based martial art you would know the specific ones that you were familiar with.
You would not have any others but the auto learned ones. For ex if I have swordsmanship but want a halberd for the ranged attack I’d be SOL. I’d need Fiore to know that. Or a book.
This statement is as absurd as mine. Knowing what you want and knowing how to make what you want are completely different things. Being proficient in an martial art will tell you WHAT you want, but in C:DDA fabrication skill does not equal sword or armorsmithing knowledge, thus the need for recipes so you can know how to make them.
There is nothing mystical about making any ancient weapon. Any smith worthy of the name could make a sword, for example. None of the techniques involved (shaping, hardening, tempering) is anything new to an experienced smith - there are no secret techniques, at least to the modern smith.
The only thing needed for a smith to make a good sword would be knowledge of the balance and dimensions of the weapon in question. Everything else is just like making any other tool that has to be hardened and they know how to do that.
Plus the modern smith - including ones that scavenge for materials - has a huge advantage over an ancient one. Namely, access to high quality homogeneous steel in large enough billets for any weapon they care to make.
tldr: If a smith worthy of the name know what they want to make (in terms of an ancient weapon) they absolutely can make one.
There are dozens of “mystical” things about making ancient weapons. It’s incredibly complex and not straightforward at all.
And scavenged alloys from cars and furniture are not even close from being suitable to weapon making.