It’s a work in progress. I’m not finished yet.
I know and I’m loving it.
Just saying that (as a temporary easy fix) whatever tools are needed for normal crossbow should probably also be required for all more advanced crossbows.
Also, while we are at it:
Current balance for self-bow/shortbow/composite/longbow seems to be really good (haven’t tried bows above that yet).
Im not gonna lie, the balance is pretty well done, but i still miss the 30 tiles range from the endgames bows
Top end bows are likely going to end up somewhere in the 25-30 tile range in the somewhat-distant future, once gun ranges are a bit more sensible. For now, damage is a bit low on all bows but I’ll fix that at some point. Also, adding a lot of new bows and crossbows. Bows and crossbows will also get a full recipe revamp.
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Is it?
I’ve played a lot with them lately and they actually seem to be very reasonably balanced.
By the way, what exactly “armor penetration” on arrows/bolts does?
I. e. a bolt with X armor pen simply ignores X points of damage reduction?
Most of them are a little bit below what they should be. I’ll be fixing that at some point.
Yeah, it ignores X points of cut resistance, which is what is used to resist projectiles.
Ok, so that’s what I don’t get:
Normal crossbow deals about 20 damage.
Broadhead bolts have 1.25 damage multiplier and 1 armor pen, 25 damage + 1 pen
Armor pen bolts have 1.10 damage multiplier and 3 armor pen, 22 damage + 3 pen
Thus boardheads are effectively still dealing more damage to armored targets on average, no?
Yeah. The flat AP values are just a placeholder until someone implements AP multipliers. I could bump them up a bit, but they’re already pretty high for low-level bows/crossbows.
I’m not quite sure how “AP multipliers” would even work.
Let’s say the target has 10 cut resistance. You shoot three bolts: for 5 damage, 10 damage and 20 damage before penetration. How much damage each will actually deal if those bolts had 20% AP damage multiplier?
It would work like damage. Your bow has 3 AP. That’s how much AP you would have if you fired a midrange non-bodkin arrow. Use bodkins and that might bump up to 6 AP.
Wait, the bow will have AP…?
I’d say AP should pretty much always be a property of ammunition, not the weapon firing it.
Now, having bonus AP as % of base damage dealt sounds much more promising:
Let’s say AP bolts would have 50% extra AP bonus: so whenever you shoot one, they get effective armor penetration of 50% of the damage it was about to deal.
So if you get a good shot from a strong crossbow that deals 30 base damage you get 15 points of AP to negate armor before said armor reduces damage.
But if you fire the same bolt and only deal 6 base damage, you only get 3 points of AP.
Etc, etc.
Bows are different to guns in the sense that they provide a constant energy, while the projectile provides the terminal ballistics.
Attaching AP to the bow is the same as attaching damage to the bow, that’s the expected AP from a mid-range arrow with the energy the bow can provide, and it will only be multiplied with different kinds of arrow/bolt, except in special cases.
Having it as a function of damage wouldn’t be terrible, but makes some things more difficult and is less obvious to the player. I.E I pick up a bow, and there’s no way for me to actually tell its AP directly, I have to do the math and might not know the equation, since AP isn’t the same equation as damage. Taking E.G 10% of damage and adding it as AP wouldn’t actually be correct.
Ok, lets say the system would be something like this:
- weapon type is what dictates raw energy of the projectile shot (raw damage, if you will)
- projectile type is what transforms that raw energy into actual damage and armor penetration
For example:
- broadhead bolt would have 1.25 damage multiplier and 0.00 AP bonus
- AP bolt would have 1.00 damage multiplier and 0.5 AP bonus
This way no matter what weapon those bolts are fired from, AP bolt deals 25% LESS damage than broadhead vs unarmored targets, but vs armored targets it has up to 25% MORE effective damage to pierce the armor.
Seems pretty simple…?
Okay. Was just curious.
That’s exactly how it will work, only the bow will list its base AP and damage, so you have an idea of what it does without having to sit and do the math.
You mean a stabiliser? Yes, we have two in the game. (I got the joke, but just in case someone is wondering.)
Me? No, I’m strictly target shooting.
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An arrow hit wont drop human or deer …it will make them flee in pain. A dead thing? Bows would be useless in DDA. Take it from a girl who has skinned deer in her tub.