Bows, Crossbows and Their Balance

darktoes · 2018-11-03T11:08:58.838Z

Like you said, 40-100k PSI. That’s WAAAAAAAY beyond anything a survivor could reasonably put together without a factory of tools and a how-to manual. Then you’d have to lug it around and that… that would suck.

Laser cutters on the other hand are pretty common and smaller. Relatively easy to build and SEEM to be more accurate, based on a quick wiki check. We could fudge a recipe for it with any laser device, some assorted components, and a skitterbot.

TheZoneWizard · 2018-11-03T11:17:53.354Z

Well. Yes. Being able to move this would be a task. But having pondered the many ideas for death mobiles. One could make something out of a decent engine and an RV…whether they want too…Meh… xD

Storming:
But I am sure a practical use could be in the heat area of the device. If…perhaps I have a robotic arm. If I could stabilize this arm to a position I need. I suppose the tool could be used for a heat sensitive area on an object. What I can’t think of that. But something to consider for a future tense of the game perhaps?

In any event. It is heavy machinery. Throwing it out there.

darktoes · 2018-11-03T11:41:28.461Z

It’s something you’d have to find, and leave, in a factory type location, maybe even a lab. While there are probably heat sensitive uses for water jet cutting, I can’t think of any that would be relevant to a survivor.

TheZoneWizard · 2018-11-03T11:44:21.140Z

Ok. Cool.

Would you think it would make any difference using a mini-reactor as the source of power? I really don’t have any attachment to the tool. My usual brain storming. I think I’ll let it go irregardless. Cheers.

darktoes · 2018-11-03T13:26:27.715Z

The power source isn’t the issue, it’s the massive pump and nozzle and actuators you’d need to make it all work. Seems they’re about the size of a bed, plus a large pump for the water. Certainly not something you could take with you in an RV. Might be fun as a factory tool you could find though, if someone comes up with something it would be necessary for that you couldn’t use a laser cutter or casting for.

kevin.granade · 2018-11-15T18:19:43.712Z

54 posts were split to a new topic: Greatbow balance

Tamior · 2019-02-11T22:34:27.886Z

Speaking of crossbows.
Normal crossbow vs composite crossbow has pretty weird crafting tools requirements.
I.e. normal crossbow needs at least multi-tool, but composite crossbow can be crafted with just a sharp rock (stone knife, that is).

darktoes · 2019-02-12T00:53:15.473Z

Hey that’s weird. I’ll have to look into that.

Tamior · 2019-05-13T11:14:31.183Z

So, as of late:
Absolutely loving the new archery balance (finally you need some actual skill and equipment before you can dish out ludicrous amounts of damage).
However, crafting requirements for the crossbows are still all over the place: you can still make COMPOSITE crossbow with nothing but a sharp rock, REPEATING crossbow with tools you can make in the field within the first hour, and NORMAL crossbow takes wrench/pliers/multitool (i. e. tools you can only craft with a fully functional blacksmiths forge).

darktoes · 2019-05-13T11:17:49.169Z

It’s a work in progress. I’m not finished yet.

Tamior · 2019-05-13T11:19:53.999Z

I know and I’m loving it.
Just saying that (as a temporary easy fix) whatever tools are needed for normal crossbow should probably also be required for all more advanced crossbows.

Tamior · 2019-05-13T11:27:31.877Z

Also, while we are at it:
Current balance for self-bow/shortbow/composite/longbow seems to be really good (haven’t tried bows above that yet).

Ragno · 2019-05-13T22:55:42.130Z

Im not gonna lie, the balance is pretty well done, but i still miss the 30 tiles range from the endgames bows

darktoes · 2019-05-14T13:27:30.771Z

Top end bows are likely going to end up somewhere in the 25-30 tile range in the somewhat-distant future, once gun ranges are a bit more sensible. For now, damage is a bit low on all bows but I’ll fix that at some point. Also, adding a lot of new bows and crossbows. Bows and crossbows will also get a full recipe revamp.

Tamior · 2019-05-14T13:53:37.390Z

darktoes:

For now, damage is a bit low on all bows

Is it?
I’ve played a lot with them lately and they actually seem to be very reasonably balanced.

By the way, what exactly “armor penetration” on arrows/bolts does?
I. e. a bolt with X armor pen simply ignores X points of damage reduction?

darktoes · 2019-05-15T01:51:21.327Z

Most of them are a little bit below what they should be. I’ll be fixing that at some point.

Yeah, it ignores X points of cut resistance, which is what is used to resist projectiles.

Tamior · 2019-05-15T02:09:50.027Z

darktoes:

Yeah, it ignores X points of cut resistance, which is what is used to resist projectiles.

Ok, so that’s what I don’t get:
Normal crossbow deals about 20 damage.
Broadhead bolts have 1.25 damage multiplier and 1 armor pen, 25 damage + 1 pen
Armor pen bolts have 1.10 damage multiplier and 3 armor pen, 22 damage + 3 pen

Thus boardheads are effectively still dealing more damage to armored targets on average, no?

darktoes · 2019-05-15T03:38:03.158Z

Yeah. The flat AP values are just a placeholder until someone implements AP multipliers. I could bump them up a bit, but they’re already pretty high for low-level bows/crossbows.

Tamior · 2019-05-15T09:09:31.329Z

I’m not quite sure how “AP multipliers” would even work.
Let’s say the target has 10 cut resistance. You shoot three bolts: for 5 damage, 10 damage and 20 damage before penetration. How much damage each will actually deal if those bolts had 20% AP damage multiplier?

darktoes · 2019-05-15T11:07:39.828Z

It would work like damage. Your bow has 3 AP. That’s how much AP you would have if you fired a midrange non-bodkin arrow. Use bodkins and that might bump up to 6 AP.