6+ months of agonizing "realism" nerfs have ruined this game

[Voqar]

CDDA was a great game. I loved it.

I don’t love the Auto Mechanic 2016 Simulator that it’s become.

In fact, when I see the completely off the wall “Blah blah Simulator 2016” games on Steam I’m usually like, WT-everloving-F - who buys this stuff?

I really don’t get why people who work on this game are hell bent on making such amazingly miserable changes to the game.

Code reviews - or better yet - design reviews - with a shred of common sense - would be pretty neato.

PS - I can’t reset my pwd for this forum since the emails for it never get thru. I saw someone get a link for this via reddit but I can’t find a moderator to try it either. (Hence I post sparingly via work laptop - which is probably for the best)

[Pthalocy]

Unfortunately I don’t yet have sufficient permissions to handle password recovery - and don’t know that I will, as I’m interested in being moderator rather than full Admin. My suggestion would be to message Rivet about this, if you have not already. In my past experience she’s been online regularly enough to catch these sorts of things. I couldn’t get my own password back either when I returned here this September - I finally remembered it thru sheer force of guesswork. Bleh.

[gamejunky]

I wonder how long before it becomes mandatory that your character has to take a daily shit or your guts explode and you die a horrible death. All in the name of improving realism. The real question is how long you have to idle for them to finish it. Maybe the amount of fiber they get in their diet will have a determination on that. Like if you don’t eat enough food high in fiber it takes as long as repairing a part on your vehicle. And let’s not forget the morale penalty you take if you don’t keep enough rags or craft enough toilet paper to wipe clean afterward. Oh! and make sure you shit where zombies and ferocious animals aren’t nearby or they might home in on the smell. Nothing worse that having that private moment interrupted by a zombie hulk. If you drink too much unclean water you should get Montezuma’s Revenge and generate an extra amount of smell that puts you in even more danger.

[Findulidas]

I wonder how long before it becomes mandatory that your character has to take a daily shit

I could see that working in a game like this. Having diarrhea might not be romantical but it can be scary when you know that you can die of it, dying of diseases related to it is still very common in the world. Without antibiotics, proper clean water and an easy way to rest would be dangerous. Being excessively dehydrated and weak. Not to mention the zombie factor like you mentioned before. Doing your number one and two could also easily have a risk of attracting monsters afterwards due to the smell if you dont dig it down or something. This could be a huge factor if you plan to build a base somewhere. Yeah, I could see that actually working in a game like this.

Would also get thumbs up from me from the basic fact that it would be the first game to implement basic human hygiene principles that we all do every single day in an mechanically important and in universe fitting way as well. Certainly about as much irritating as having to eat food and sleep atleast.

[Taberone]

I wonder how long before it becomes mandatory that your character has to take a daily shit or your guts explode and you die a horrible death. All in the name of improving realism. The real question is how long you have to idle for them to finish it. Maybe the amount of fiber they get in their diet will have a determination on that. Like if you don’t eat enough food high in fiber it takes as long as repairing a part on your vehicle. And let’s not forget the morale penalty you take if you don’t keep enough rags or craft enough toilet paper to wipe clean afterward. Oh! and make sure you shit where zombies and ferocious animals aren’t nearby or they might home in on the smell. Nothing worse that having that private moment interrupted by a zombie hulk. If you drink too much unclean water you should get Montezuma’s Revenge and generate an extra amount of smell that puts you in even more danger.

[quote=“gamejunky, post:191, topic:12504”]I wonder how long before it becomes mandatory that your character has to take a daily shit

I could see that working in a game like this. Having diarrhea might not be romantical but it can be scary when you know that you can die of it, dying of diseases related to it is still very common in the world. Without antibiotics, proper clean water and an easy way to rest would be dangerous. Being excessively dehydrated and weak. Not to mention the zombie factor like you mentioned before. Doing your number one and two could also easily have a risk of attracting monsters afterwards due to the smell if you dont dig it down or something. This could be a huge factor if you plan to build a base somewhere. Yeah, I could see that actually working in a game like this.

Would also get thumbs up from me from the basic fact that it would be the first game to implement basic human hygiene principles that we all do every single day in an mechanically important and in universe fitting way as well. Certainly about as much irritating as having to eat food and sleep atleast.[/quote]

Bodily functions are a thing that will never happen, though.

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:1, topic:9764”][size=12pt]Poop and related bodily functions: NO[/size]
No, just no, not even in a mod.[/quote]

[ApatheticExcuse]

[quote=“Taberone, post:193, topic:12504”]Bodily functions are a thing that will never happen, though.

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:1, topic:9764”][size=12pt]Poop and related bodily functions: NO[/size]
No, just no, not even in a mod.[/quote][/quote]

cough

Track nutrition separately from hunger

I’m going to agree that tracking whether the characters are meeting their RDA of different nutrients seems a bit excessive.

New, more real style amunution system, maybe?

Yeah, I want Cataclysm to be a game with sim elements, not a hardcore survival sim. So we’re not going to be drilling down into the depths of loading individual magazines and whatnot.

[quote=“i2amroy, post:2, topic:4869”]Cleaning firearms occasionally? Yes.

Cleaning other things? Possible, but slim

Cleaning clothes? Probably not. The reward for adding it in is probably not worth the amount of hassle it would cause in-game.[/quote]

Cleanliness as an Item Quality

The difference between cleaning clothes and repairing them is that on is something you have to do as a result of specific decisions/things that happen to your character, while the other is something you will always have to do. Repairing is something that’s only needed to be done after you’ve gotten into combat (and with better armors not even then). Cleaning is something that would basically amount down to “and then every other day I have to spend time doing this”; and that’s a bad thing (or at least something that could be automated).

As a couple examples of stuff that “will never happen”. You don’t have to look too hard to find more.

[Coolthulhu]

Cleaning clothes un-happened from the core game, though.

[Random_dragon]

Cleaning clothes un-happened from the core game, though.

It still happened in the first place. Never assume that an idea is too stupid to make it in game.

Granted, the difference between “need to take a shit” and the examples ApatheticExcuse cited is that those examples were vetoed by other people, not by Kevin. Now if we can get a quote from Kevin stating that catching scurvy some other such nonsense will never be a thing, then all this discussion becomes a moot point.

Because then he’ll have set a precedent for displaying common sense in the past, only to turn right around and decide we need a feature even he previously thought was a bad idea.

[Shopkeeper]

As a couple examples of stuff that “will never happen”. You don’t have to look too hard to find more.

You’re literally quoting things from 3 years ago. It’s been agreed filthy clothes were a generally bad idea that only added tedium, it’s in a mod now that with any luck will be forgotten about and support dropped for a while down the line. The ability to handload individual magazines is an improvement. Vitamins currently affect nothing and won’t until they’re put through the development ringer further, then they’ll get a mod to disable them or people will complain enough that being disabled will be standard just like dirty clothes.

[Valpo]

It is called changing your mind.

[SpadeDraco]

Cleaning clothes un-happened from the core game, though.

Yeah, but that happened quietly behind Granades back. There’s a high probability that when he becomes active again he’ll throw a shit fit and try to make you re-mainline it. You saw how defensive he got on github whenever anyone suggested removing it.

[Pthalocy]

How about, instead of taking a guess at how people not present will react, we just decide if we want these features or not.

With a group this big, sometimes somebody’s idea makes it into a game despite pre-planning to avoid a feature. For some folks, you just gotta try it to see why it was a bad idea in theory. If we add bad things only to remove them - yes, it is technically a waste of time. We’re also not really doing this on a deadline, so. I say roll with it.

I agree though, no pooping. Washing clothes doesn’t add anything of value.

If I have to track nutrients, I don’t want it to be anything more complex than the foodgroup types listed. Meat, junk, plant matter, dairy, etc. Give me scurvy if I never eat any plant matter, sure, but don’t make vitamin C an separate hidden stat. Don’t add more numbers into it.

[mugling]

The ability to handload individual magazines is an improvement

I remember a small but vocal minority originally declaring their inclusion effectively marked the end of the project and they wouldn’t be playing any more. So 6+ months later…

[ApatheticExcuse]

[quote=“ApatheticExcuse, post:194, topic:12504”]As a couple examples of stuff that “will never happen”. You don’t have to look too hard to find more.

You’re literally quoting things from 3 years ago.[/quote]

That was the point, really. These were all considered terrible ideas three years ago by everyone except Kevin - if you click the quotes and read through, that becomes pretty evident.

So, either

1. Something changed and they’re somehow not terrible ideas anymore,

or

2. They are still terrible ideas, and the change has been that over the last three years, this has stopped being a community developed game when the other “originators” of the DDA mod went inactive, and started being Kevin’s game.

I’ll give the exception to mags, which do work pretty well. But, if you read that thread, more of the devs than just Granade thought it was good too.

I could have quoted some things direct from the design document, but I’m under the impression that was more KA101’s ideas for the game rather than a summation of everyone’s.

Granted, the difference between “need to take a shit” and the examples ApatheticExcuse cited is that those examples were vetoed by other people, not by Kevin.

That’s kinda also the point. They were vetoed by others, but Kevin liked them. Now they are things, despite many people and some of the devs not liking them. I don’t know how the dev team works - maybe it is Kevin’s game 100% and he has final say, but if that’s the case, I sincerely hope someone forks it before it becomes more tedious.

It is called changing your mind.

Not really in this case, but if it was, it’s a poor paradigm shift.

[mugling]

I’ll give the exception to mags, which do work pretty well. But, if you read that thread, more of the devs than just Granade thought it was good too.

Which thread because there were a number? A handful of posters provided 95%+ of the ‘feedback’. Most of those posters have now moved onto other issues. Will history repeat itself?

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

Yes.

[ApatheticExcuse]

I’m meaning the one I quoted. I didn’t bother looking at recent stuff.

[Random_dragon]

How about, instead of taking a guess at how people not present will react, we just decide if we want these features or not.

You poor, naive soul. If Kevin decides he really wants filthy clothes to be in mainline, then he’ll likely re-mainline it no matter what player feedback and common sense says. In his own words, the project is not a democracy.

[Valpo]

Thats a good thing. The community usualy wants things that are poorly thought through. It is better if the devs decide what is good for the project.
The community should only serve as inspiration and feedback . It should not have any deciding power.

[Random_dragon]

This is not a good thing if the devs (more importantly, any of them with merge permissions) latch onto ideas that are sound and sensible only to them. We would not have 14 pages of this thread otherwise.