CDDA can be played and enjoyed in many ways, that’s true.
This is one of the reasons I like this game so much.
The purpose of this concept is not to invalidate anyone’s playstyle or take away someone’s fun.
Quite to the contrary, it’s goal is to add another possible style to the mix that is not really valid right now:
Following a kind of “Main Quest” that encompasses all aspects of the game for people that like playing this way. Modders would also profit from such a system as it would give them the ability to easily forge really complex challenge-runs if they want.
I mean no harm or disrespect for anyone out there and I don’t want to take away any part of the game that is enjoyed by more freestyle players.
My only goal with this proposition is to make the game more fun for people that enjoy set challenges.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Have fun with the game in whatever way you like, the more, the better.
Currently I get the impression that the accomplishments are tracked across multiple characters, even the dead ones. That seems correct, because it would be weird for one character do do everything.
Sounds like the plan for this one is to be character-specific. Achievements track it for all your characters since its also used for the meta progression that unlocks new starts, if you have that enabled. Might be more akin to missions.
If not though I think it should be, since the alure of this one is to have an in-game goal you could follow, would not make sense to make it a one-time achievement.
Normal achievements are for all characters you ever played.
They keep track of all the things you experienced in the game (and have a small meta progression in it).
Challenge-achievements would only be things that can actually kill your character if you are not prepared for them. And they are only bound to one specific character.
For example: an achievement would be “get tailoring to level 10” (this has no real risk in it so it’s not a real challenge but more of a “collectible”). You get it, once one of your characters in any game gets this far and you never lose it (as long as your game data doesn’t explode for some reason). Some people like this way of a game “acknowledging” their effort, others see it as mindless grinding. Both ways of seeing it are viable, it’s a personal preference.
A challenge-achievement on the other hand would be a chapter in a hero’s journey. It counts only for the one character doing it (and their faction) and has no other impact on gameplay.
It’s sole purpose is to motivate goal-driven players and give newer players a reason to engage with the world when they’re questioning, if it is even worth their time.
The reason, why this could improve the game for quite a number of players lies in the core design of CDDA: the game is part of the “grim dark genre”.
In a grim dark world, there is no real hope. There is no way to “save” the world. You can try but you will fail. Always and forever. Warhammer 40k is the most popular setting in this genre.
Kevin and the devs declared this “lost cause state” as a core concept of the game and have been adamant about it for quite some time now. I really respect them for that, because there are not many RPGs out there that are true grim dark.
The reason for this is simple: There are no “real” heroes in grim dark. There is no way for a happy ending or even a small light upon the horizon. You can not save the world, it is already lost.
This contradicts one of the most important qualities of RPGs in my opinion: the heroic journey that keeps the player going forward, chasing the light of hope upon the horizon.
Grim dark doesn’t have this.
This quote proofs my point pretty well:
I understand that feeling.
Grim dark stories have a tendency to feel pointless or “empty” for some people because one of the core-motivators of a majority of RPGs is just not there.
This is NOT a criticism of the devs and their work by any means, it is just a part of the genre.
I personally really like the grim dark aspect of CDDA and I will never advocate for changing any part of it.
Still, there should be an engaging goal for “heroic” players that could easily feel disappointed as soon as they realize that there is no way of saving the world.
This is, where challenges come into play.
If you would describe CDDA and it’s core concept in as few words as possible, it would not be “Save the world!”, because that is impossible, it would rather be “Fight hell!”.
Challenges are meant as a testament to this fight, a chronology of a single survivor dealing with all kinds of threats and overcoming them. There is something heroic in such a fight, even if there is no way of defeating the cause of the apocalypse.
This concept is not a perfect solution by any means but, in my opinion, it’s the closest we could come to a “heroic journey” in this setting and stage of the game for those that want one. The challenge-achievements are just the bricks to build this journey out of, a way of the game “acknowledging” the fight of your character beyond self-made goals (like all achievements do in some way). This is the reason, why they are bound to one character only (after all, a classic hero’s journey starts at 0 for everyone).
This does of course not mean that you are obligated to do all of them or even a single one of them.
They are completly optional.
Both systems (normal achievements and challenges) can work together without problem, so achievement-hunters and people only interested in their one hero’s journey can both enjoy the game without making sacrifices.
Please keep in mind that this concept is not meant to be limiting in any way.
It’s purpose is not to discourage your own imagination or creativity, but to give them room to grow by motivating players to set out on a journey without feeling this “grim dark dread” and believing that this whole endeavour is pointless from the beginning.
Imagine this system like a silent, invisible guide standing beside you.
You can just ignore him if you don’t need his advice and he won’t disturb you on your self-chosen way.
But if you ever feel lost, you can just ask him for direction to give your journey a new turn.
One of the hardest challenges that will also be the hardest to implement will be having a faction that can dominate the local area and reasteblish a small pocket of civilazation.
This is probably YEARS into the future. As it would require having functioning hordes, the world changing over time, some sort of ecosysteem simulation, monster factions spreading their influence and fighting eachother and getting NPC´s into a reasonable state. Not to mention that we would have to have some sort of economy simulation between different factions and your own.
That is an excellent idea for a “supreme goal” that encompasses all other challenges.
The full-fledged concept would be pretty far away, but I think a basic level of this could be achieved in the near future.
Maybe, if you have gained the trust of all other factions, you could just hold a meeting with their leaders to build a form of union with a pact of mutual assistance as a seed of civilization.
Because some of the factions are rather eccentric, I don’t think they would agree on anything more (the exodii would not just bend the knee to anyone).
To get them all into such an agreement, you would probably have to make exceptional diplomatic efforts or perform a really outstanding act of heroism. If you succeed however, you could really forge a powerful alliance out of them to give humanity a chance at survival. It would not end the cataclysm but it would be a step in the direction of hope.
This would be the most “good” ending I can think of.
If you want to make it even more epic, there could be another step on top of that.
This should probably be mod-content for I don’t know how compatible it would be with the theme of the core game.
When you have beaten all challenges, got the trust of all other factions and got them all working together, this could attract unwanted attention in the form of a giant horde of monsters heading your way.
This could be a mi-go army, an incredibly large horde of high-evolution zombies, nether creatures breaching through time and space or, in true Cataclysm-style, all of them at once.
To defend against such a threat, you would gather the troops of all surviving factions to one point on the map and fight the attacking horde in a last, desperate battle (like Ragnarok).
If you survive this final confrontation victoriously, you could probably just retire, if you want, and get the ending credits (like those you get when you die but with better results). The victory in this battle should give the remnants of humanity some time to regroup and prepare for the darker parts of their destiny that are mentioned in the design documents.
For this stage of the game, it would be a pretty epic way of ending your story if you want a definitive ending to it.
The Ragnarok-route would of course need some development-work before it could be done.
You would need the possibility to summon your allies to a specific point and give them basic battle commands. The AI would need some improvements too (and a lot of sensitivity to friendly fire) to even try such a large scale battle.
If you were able to gift your spare high-level weapons, armor and equipment to your allied forces to use them in the final battle, this would also be a great reward for exploring the world and raiding labs and other dangerous locations, because all of this would give you an edge in the end.
If that would be possible one day, I’m sure it will be a lot of fun.
I can picture the epicness of that scene, as well as the horrid lag I’d get with my average phone. 
I’m wondering though what’ll happen in a persistent world where you completed these quests using multiple characters that died? Could those sacrifices mean something to them or merely dismissed as just another one biting the dust in this apocalypse. I have a feeling it’ll be gratifying for the player, if they cared about their characters in one way or another, to acknowledge them should they persist with the world despite their first character dying, its the ultimate F in the chat moment I dare say.
This kind of ending does sound kinda out of place. Though it’ll certainly feel welcome in overhaul mods like Dark Skies, even Dark Days of the Dead’ll vibe with this readily.
The first victim of war is the framerate. 
I don’t know if the game makes an internal log of dead player characters and their NPC allies to give them recognition in the end. It would be nice though. Makes them more human.
In the Ragnarok-Scenario it wouldn’t be a problem when all participants are summoned via a special function to the battlefiled (the game could just make a list of all NPC combatants and give them a small epilogue in the end, if they survive or not).
If they all die in the final battle, well …, there would be no one left to remember anyway.
Yes, all these “definitive end” scenarios are meant to be mod content.
I think they would be viable in a lot of configurations, as long as NPCs don’t start throwing their pants on the enemy in the heat of battle (sometimes their behaviour is very strange).
Another possible way to use this system would be: reputation
While there are faction relations already in the game, there is not a real measurement of your overall reputation in the world (the “name” you have made for yourself in the apocalypse).
This is meant to be an additional layer to that mechanic, not a replacement of systems already in the game.
In my opinion, NPCs (especially lonely ones that are not part of a proper faction) should behave differently when meeting your character, according to the things they heard about you (if there are any).
I think the different challenge-categories could work well together with the anger/trust/fear-system that is already present in the game.
While every challenge should give the player and their faction a bit of reputation overall (the harder the challenge, the more reputation), this would also allow for more interesting interactions with different types of NPCs.
Some examples:
A wandering mercenary would probably prefer to work for someone who is already known for killing different monsters and surviving it (fighting challenges) while a refugee would trust a character much more when they hear that this person has already helped others in the past (quest chain challenges).
A lone wanderer that has dedicated their life to exploring the world or seeking answers to their questions why the apocalypse happend would probably beg a player character to allow them to join their party when they hear that the player has already successfully raided a lab (reaching and surviving the finale) or succeeded in other exploration challenges (amigara-vault ect.).
This would make NPCs more interesting and give them more of a “character” themselves.
Of course this can be used in many other ways as well.
NPCs could offer additional dialogue lines or options according to your deeds or even change their complete behaviour towards the player. This could be extremely interesting with differnt factions and their relations as well (for example: destroying the old guard would make you a hero for bandits and vice versa).
Some Ideas:
-
Important missions:
Some quests could have a minimum reputation requirement for a player character to even start them.
I think this would be rather realistic because a faction would probably not give a really important and difficult job to just anyone that stumbles out of the woods, even if they have already proven to be trustworthy by doing some quests for them. -
Diplomacy:
As soon as faction relations are more fleshed out, reputation not linked to a single group could be a valuable factor in diplomacy between different factions. -
Ideology:
Different factions like differnt things and should react accordingly.
For example, killing your first zombie hulk (a fighting challenge) could give you a slight boost in reputation for the valhalla faction (for killing a “giant”, the most viking-thing there is in their mythology) and maybe give you some special dialogue-options or just some words of appreciation.
The goal of this mechanic is to link the accomplishments of the player character (and their faction) to subtle changes in the post apocalyptic world to make it feel more “alive” and organic.
The challenge list could be used as a “game world log” to some extent to keep track of player deeds and show them to the player in a form that is easy to read and understand.
I don’t think this has to go to the complexity levels of dwarf fortress, rimworld or caves of qud, but just some small differences in NPC behaviour can already have a pretty noticeable effect.
It helps a lot with immersion when the things that you do in game have noticeable consequences, even if they are small, and I think this could be a rather simple but elegant solution.
I think that would be a great idea, and I’m slightly surprised it doesn’t already exist in-game.
It would definitely help with game immersion like you said, and add a lot of new ways to interact with Npc’s
I also like the idea of certain quests/missions being unlocked with reputation instead of it just being a linear chain quest that only requires the one before it to be done, because that way you might actually need to do something for the faction instead of just grinding through each one of their quests in a row. For example the Old Guard in the refugee center is just like “here kill some bandits”, and then right after its like “alright go get compromised government data from a black box” to “i trust you to raid an nuclear bunker, and protect an elite group of soldiers”. I think this would also add a lot the factions in general, if it was required to do actually help.
Also I’m assuming the valhalla faction is from a mod? But anyway, I think it should be required to have some kind of witness for stuff like that, not just you kill a hulk, and then your reputation gets boosted, maybe you would have to have an Npc with you, or maybe it would be part of a mission, or you might have to even take pictures for proof? Idk, but I think it could be really in depth and adding those little details would make it more realistic and potentially more “fun”.
Additional idea, what if you gain reputation in certain areas, for example: you could gain reputation in being a thief, or monster hunting, which in turn would unlock new interactions with Npc’s
The viking faction is part of the base game as far as I know. They are reenactors that are just really into viking-things.
Someone of this group greeting you as a “giant slayer” after you killed a hulk just seems as a fitting dialogue option, it doesn’t even need to be a full fledged quest (of course it could also be one).
Needing a witness for challenges or quests would probably just make things complicated and tedious for the most part.
I think the “almighty eye of the quest giver that automatically knows when you get things done” is a sufficient solution and for cases, where evidence is part of the job (for example: important bounties in quests) you could probably use something like the “Ascension Keys” I mentioned in the first post (radioactive mecha-spider brains and such things).
For all other purposes I think it is enough to just give the player the challenge-achievements when they do what is necessary to get them and take them as “simulated bragging rights” when they meet other people (NPCs are supposed to talk to each other in the background, therefore the “name you made for yourself” would spread on it’s own in a good and a bad way).
This is exactly what the different challenge-categories could be used for. All beaten challenges would improve your overall reputation but certain categories would be seen as more “valuable” to differnt people and therefore could count double for them.
The categories I can think of with this concept are:
“Heroism”:
Doing quests for different factions that are not considered bandits or complete lunatics.
Valuable for: The Old Guard, refugees and other people seeking help
“Combat Prowess”:
Defeating different monsters
Valuable for: The vikings and other factions that are combat-driven as well as wandering mercenaries
“Exploration”:
Exploring interesting places and reaching / surviving their finale
Valuable for: The Exodii and wandering scientists / explorers
For mods, I could think of an “Arcane”-Category (for Arcana and Magiclysm) that consists of all things magical (finding arcane secrets or raiding a forge of wonders) or a “Secrets”-Category for Xedra.
Another possibility:
“Villainy” as a counterpart to “Heroism”:
Destroying lawful factions and basically being a bandit
Valuable for: Bandits and other rogues like those pesky wandering muggers
This would probably rather decrease your reputation than increase it
If you follow this path, members of lawful factions would just shoot you on sight
Speaking of muggers, when you reach a certain level of reputation, normal bandits should probably just flee from you, screaming and begging for their lifes (they are out for easy targets after all, not for robbing a mutated cyborg with a laser gun that just killed half a dozen amigara horrors).
Small things like this really make a difference in a game, showing that the player character is not a feeble refugee anymore but someone that should be taken serious.
This could be used for another interesting game mechanic that I will explain in the next post.
Something I often hear others complaining about in the game is the fact that the “end game” is more or less without real pressure or high stakes.
While you can still be killed quite easily when you don’t know what you’re doing, getting into life-threatening danger is all up to the player as soon as the early game is over.
The beginning of a new character’s journey is by far the most engaging, because you HAVE to go into lethal situations to survive even a few days. This makes the game really intense and exciting but as soon as you have mastered basic survival, this “fear for your own life” is subsiding pretty fast.
For a mid-game character day-to-day survival is rather easy and not really a challenge anymore.
Of course there are a lot of interesting things to do out there, but (from a realistic standpoint) there is no real driving factor for a survivor to risk their life in them because they could just stay in their little nook they have secured for themselves without negative consequences other than boredom.
A mid-to-late game character that dies, does so out of curiosity or hybris and not out of a reason that would make it into a movie plot.
This is not meant as a criticism in any way, it’s just my own experience.
I’ve read about other players in another thread suggesting a kind of “ender dragon fight” as a voluntary end-game-challenge. I’ve come to an idea how to achieve this and, at the same time, make the end-game much more engaging for players that “miss the good old days when surviving was a challenge on it’s own”.
I think the reputation system I described above could be used in an interesting and realistic way to reach this goal.
It would make the game much harder at certain points, so I would suggest to include an option to deactivate this mechanic (like portal storms) if it ever gets implemented.
Concept of the “Dark Awakening”:
Let’s say, a player has mastered basic survival, made some allies, built a base and succeeded in several quest chains of the main factions.
This would mean, they are a well known and trusted entity in their local “community” of survivors with a high reputation and are probably ready for most dangers the game can throw their way.
This would not go unnoticed.
While the blob would of course not care in the slightest, other entities would.
When the player faction reaches a certain (very high) amount of reputation, it could lead to a malevolent faction getting interested in you and taking action (“Dark Awakening”).
The type of enemy that would come for you can be determined by the challenge-category that gives you the highest amount of reputation and is therefore the reason for you catching unwanted attention.
For example:
A high reputation amount in the “Heroism”-category would mean that you succeeded in bringing a seed of civilization back into the world. This would automatically make you a threat to all rouges and bandits in the vicinity because their way of life depends on the absence of law and order. When the Old Guard could strenghten their power and restore some basic form of cooperation or alliance between survivor groups, bandits would have a really hard time. Seeing you as the core of this problem, a supreme bandit lord would for sure like to see you dead.
If your “Combat Prowess” reputation was especially high, you could catch the attention of the mi-go.
They are slavers and you defeating even the stongest monsters in the lands would make you an extremely valuable slave. So they would one day come for you.
The “Exploration”-category could just be linked to nether creatures being disturbed by you, poking your nose into every dark corner of the world and get their attention in true lovecraftian style.
As soon as an enemy faction is “awoken”, it would send their emissaries to get rid off you.
The first visit would just be a single enemy, for example a mi-go appearing before your base one day, whispering something like “We know who you are! We are coming for you!” to let the player know that they have a new and dangerous enemy.
From this moment, the awoken faction would plan a series of attacks directed to the player character.
You wouldn’t know, when.
You wouldn’t know, where.
You wouldn’t know how bad it’s going to be.
All you would know is: You have to prepare!
This would give the player a really good and very realistic reason to go out into the world and fight for their survival. Raiding a deadly lab is a far better idea when you really need those high-tech weapons in there because the alien crab-people slavers are coming for you, than just you being curious what’s in there.
It would completely change the feeling of the game and make it much more of a struggle for survival because now your life is threatened, even if you don’t put yourself into danger.
I think the attacks of an awoken faction should be rare but serious. They are not meant to be an everyday annoyance but a deadly threat to prepare for and to test your survival skills in all forms.
The number of monsters in an attack would increase with your reputation in the faction-related category.
Several factions can be awoken at the same time as soon as you reach their reputation limit in a certain category (although the different enemy factions are not allied and could even infight).
When the attack finally happens, the enemy group is spawned near the player (maybe three overmap tiles away) and heads directly towards them (like a wandering horde).
The attack interval is random, so you don’t know when they are coming.
This means, a player without NPC allies should really fear the night, because the attack can happen while they are sleeping.
Traps, barricades, emergency plans, even a single tamed guard dog could really make the difference between life and death in such situations.
Base defense would become an important part of the game.
The exciting struggle for survival in the early game would stay a constant, rather than decline over time.
Also, the game getting harder and punishing you for trying to make the game world a slightly better place for survivors is really fitting for the grim dark genre.
The chance for an attack would steadily increase the longer you stay in the same area. That means, a nomadic playstyle would be the only chance to avoid it by always being on the run and thus decreasing the attack chance steadily. This alone would probably make for some interesting and intense ways to play the game, similar to that starting condition of the strange monster following you, but much more severe.
When the enemy attacks of a faction have reached their maximum strength, a “general” would lead them into battle. Killing such a boss monster would give you a “map”-item that can be read like any other map and reveals the homebase of the corresponding faction.
These enemy bases (bandit king hideout, mi-go fortress or lovecraftian horror cathedral) can only be found this way and are supposed to be the most dangerous places in the game.
A giant structure full of enemies, traps and dangers (and loot) to give you a challenge that needs every trick, weapon and power the game can offer you.
When you kill the enemy overlord (bandit king, mi-go supreme brain? or nether-something-cthulhu), the faction is defeated and the attacks of this faction stop.
This would be the “Ender Dragon Fight” of the game (the best I can think of).
In my opinion this would be a really interesting and epic addition to the game.
It could even be part of the core game because it doesn’t violate any core principles of lore or realism as far as I can see (feel free to correct me, if I’m wrong on this one).
With a real threat in the background, the days ahead are indeed dark and linking it to a player’s actions in the game (via the challenge-system) feels very realistic and organic (and gives players control over the start of the end-game).
For real hardcore players, there could also be a starting scenario that has all enemy factions awoken from the start, forcing the player to run for their life all the time and stay in the shadows until they are strong enough to fight back.
This would be really intense, but also a lot of fun.
I really like that idea. It would also add a sense of accomplishment for later game, if you were recognized for the things you had done.
Oh my bad, maybe I’ve just never encountered them, sometimes that rng isnt in my favor😑
They got added in the last development cycle, so you have to play experimental to even get a chance to meet them until the upcoming stable version is out.
I never encountered them myself until now (I only play stable version) but I saw them mentioned in the CDDA News Videos on YouTube by “TheMurderUnicorn”.
If you don’t know him already I can only recommend his videos, they are really well done to keep fans updated with the development of the game (and he is also a really nice person in general).
Recently the possibility for attacks of enemy factions was added to the 0.H experimental (by MNG-cataclysm).
Assassins and other “unpleasant things” are now coming your way when you have made a faction your mortal enemy.
With this change, base defence and faction relations are becoming a really interesting part of the game.
This is a great new mechanic and I hope we see more of it in the future.
The new boss encounter in the XEDRA mod looks very promising too.
0.H is being worked on already? Damn.
Also yeah that sounds really interesting, Right now there is pretty much no need for base defense besides a few spiked pits for the occasional horde. But having to defend from Hostile Npc’s sounds really interesting
Technically, any point in the experimentals is just the experimental for ‘Next Version’. Work on 0.H started the day after 0.G released, give or take 18 hours. But the initial period after a new version tends to be very exciting, as a lot of pent up contributor commitments come into play, having been waiting for possibly months for the feature freeze to finish. The start of a new experimental cycle also seems to be a popular time to make big, radical changes that will need time to play out.
There’s a draft in the Github now being discussed on how the new Wounds system may be implemented, and its going to be a huge expansion on the medical and combat consequences in the game. The faction attacks is a similar ‘foundational change’ addition. Always love these new experimental periods. For someone like me that regularly pulls the latest experimental when a char dies, stable releases tend to be far less interesting to me than what comes after them.