# Will there be Proficiency books?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [April 14, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222 "2021-04-14T04:30:16Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Vastin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/vastin/32/9912_2.png) [@Vastin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Vastin)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/1 "2021-04-14T04:30:16Z")

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Currently it seems that the only way to train specialized proficiencies is by practice, while high level skill gains are most easily learned from books.

This almost seems like its backwards. Highly specialized proficiencies should (mostly) require books to learn, while advancing core skill levels past the basic (1-3) levels should be more the realm of hard practice and training than reading?

Proficiency books would certainly be a nice addition at any rate, to add more interesting specialized books to hunt down to help with skill development.

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**Author:** ![Profugo\_Barbatus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@Profugo\_Barbatus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Profugo_Barbatus)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/2 "2021-04-14T18:06:55Z")

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The intent as far as I can tell, is always to require proficiencies be trained by practice. However, the [original idea](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/31610) did include the idea of having a book handy to help accelerate the learning rate from the practice. You wouldn’t read a book and just gain lockpicking, but having a lockpickers guide handy while trying to pick a lock would increase your skill gains.

Design ideas do change over time however, and Proficiency has turned into a very effective tool for encouraging actual crafting and skill practicing over just reading to lvl10 and sewing up the best gear in a weekend. I wouldn’t be surprised if proficiency books are no longer as much of an interest, as they are working very well to encourage players to focus on learning one skillset at a time in smaller projects. To quote Kevin in that issue,

> One of the underlying problems if the system as it exists before proficiencies is that it doesn’t resemble the process of learning how to do things in any meaningful way.  
> The process is the whole point, you need to build out a repertoire of abilities and recipes instead of “find one item per skill level, craft untill you level”.

Edit: Of course I noticed that [another issue](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/44680) was raised more recently to make exactly that happen still.

Edit 2 Electric Boogaloo: [And implemented](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/46347). Some books already provide a mitigation to the penalty.

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**Author:** ![ThinkSome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThinkSome](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ThinkSome)\
**Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/3 "2021-04-15T00:26:16Z")

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@Profugo_Barbatus except the focus system prevents you from reading to lvl10 in a weekend. Additionally, gaining skills through reading is very slow, even if you have fast reader and fast learner. It’s usually possible to find a craft that levels you up very fast. One example would be the anaesthetic kit that can be assembled and disassembled on and on.

I’m not sure if I like proficiencies at all, at least not how they are implemented right now. e.g.: don’t have the carving proficiency? Fine, making arrows takes double the time. Have it? time halves. There’s a hard border between crafting times, which is unnatural and therefore bothers me. The border should be soft and the time penalty inversely proportional to your proficiency.

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**Author:** ![AcidAntOnAMinefield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@AcidAntOnAMinefield](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AcidAntOnAMinefield)\
**Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/4 "2021-04-15T15:15:34Z")

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Fast Learner does not work with Books.

Proficiencies, I don’t mind them, seeing I can understand more or less what to get and how to get, although all via random test works to try and figure out what goes where and how in terms of a “skill tree” of sorts. The time stuff takes to make seems okay for the most part, although, some items really need to be re-evaluated.

The only gripe I have with this system is the fact that you literally have no information in-game in regards to their progression whatsoever. If you don’t know that some proficiencies has pre-requirements and some of them multiple pre-reqs, you’re essentially stuck.  
We have so many submenus, the @ screen is full of information that should be “hideable”/“unhideable” (or it could have an extra tab or two to keep things organised).

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**Author:** ![souricelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@souricelle](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/souricelle)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/5 "2021-04-17T20:27:42Z")

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You can learn proficiencies from NPCs and as time goes on they’ll be added to more NPCs and starting scenarios, but proficiencies come from hands-on training, book learning only takes you so far.

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**Author:** ![Zlorthishen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zlorthishen/32/11061_2.png) [@Zlorthishen](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zlorthishen)\
**Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 4:55am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/6 "2021-04-29T04:55:03Z")

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I created a mod which allows helicopter proficiencies to be learned from two books.

> **[Zlorthishen/Learnable\_Helicopters](https://github.com/Zlorthishen/Learnable_Helicopters)**
>
> A supplement, community supported mod that allows the Helicopter Piloting and Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic proficiencies to be able to be learned.

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**Author:** ![ThinkSome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThinkSome](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ThinkSome)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/will-there-be-proficiency-books/26222/7 "2021-05-02T00:32:38Z")

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Thanks.

There are two issues:

1. no license.
2. the folder structure is such that it cannot be cloned in mods/. It has to either be cloned and then renamed to mods/ or symlinked from someplace else.