Wilderness Living Pre-Post-Mortem

[MormonPartyboat]

MormonPartyboat: I was actually looking at adding some crops, but sounds like you’ve beat me to the punch. Do you intend for this to be a mod or something you intend to submit for merging into the mainline game?

I was hoping for it to be main line eventually (it’ll need to be for the code changes to add the natural medicines), but I’m going to hopefully post it in the mod forum once I have something to post later this week. I had a list of things that had to change in the code, but keep happily discovering that things have been pushed to json since I last poked around.

I’d prefer not to step on your toes in the latter case, so I’ll avoid trying to add anything like beans (I appreciate that, by the by; it would’ve required some futzing around with existing food recipes and possibly the existing beans).

I’ve been doing it a pretty hilarious way - for the new items, I add a newitem, a seed_newitem, and a recipe to cut up one ‘unit’ (based on charges) of newitem to make two seeds. For beans I just futzed it by taking some beans and adding water to make some sprouted beans which are seed_beans in the code. The way the code seems to work is that it needs seed_ at the front since it identifies what item the seed is for by string manipulation (so the mushroom stems are seed_mushroom). Just for giggles I made a seed_hammer (without editing the hammer at all) and sure enough the bush sprouted hammers.

[quote=“AllisonW, post:26, topic:8768”]Anything else you plan to add for crops? I won’t be adding gatherable plants, beans, or the medical plants you mentioned. I may, however, add things like oats, rice, maybe soy (the issue with soy is that it’s so bloody versatile), broccoli, zucchini, and such. Mind if I take those, or do you have them covered?

Also, mind if I add a clay oil lamp? I noticed in the OP that you seem to be interested in playing with clay, so I don’t want to step on your toes there, either.[/quote]

Go for it, and feel free to take beans! They’re out of place with what I’m doing anyway. All I did with clay is change each of the recipes from using the charcoal kiln to a (new) clay kiln and make them use fuel. I have no problem tweaking things later if what I’m doing gets merged to mainline. I’m also not planning on adding anything else on the crops side, except maybe the transplanting of trees and the potting of flowers.

[AllisonW]

Go for it, and feel free to take beans! They’re out of place with what I’m doing anyway. All I did with clay is change each of the recipes from using the charcoal kiln to a (new) clay kiln and make them use fuel. I have no problem tweaking things later if what I’m doing gets merged to mainline. I’m also not planning on adding anything else on the crops side, except maybe the transplanting of trees and the potting of flowers.

Uh, no, you can have the beans, honest

Assuming you’re done with beans, anyway. There’d be no particular point in me retreading ground you’ve already covered, so I won’t do beans unless you haven’t actually done them yet.

[Barhandar]

All I did with clay is change each of the recipes from using the charcoal kiln to a (new) clay kiln and make them use fuel.

Occam’s Razor: why create a new item when you can rename an existing one - brick kiln?

[MormonPartyboat]

Occam’s Razor: why create a new item when you can rename an existing one - brick kiln?

Because making gargantuan clay pots out of a small, portable kiln isn’t a thing. No clay item in game is small enough to put into a portable one, and it’s more work to try to jury rig a solution than to just nix the brick kiln entirely and depreciate any existing ones.

[MormonPartyboat]

~double post~

I’ve been working around code limitations re: planting trees, as it doesn’t seem to allow a way to spawn items via the construction menu other than despawning and harvesting. My first swing at getting cuttings from trees and replanting them ran into all kinds of issues when dealing with out-of-season young trees (construction to turn t_apple_tree to t_apple_tree_cut, which can be harvested for cuttings that are planted as t_apple_tree_young with a harvested flag that harvests for null and turns into t_apple_tree_harvested). It seems like the way the harvested flag works, it auto-converts the terrain as if it had been harvested when you load the map out of the growing season, so if you plant a young apple tree in summer, quit and reload, the tree turns into an adult apple tree. So there’s no way I can see of having a young tree terrain tile mature into an older tree without code monkeying, at least through manipulating terrain through the construction menu.

However, I think I found a workaround - using the code that lets yeast flasks mature. You take a cutting from a ripe tree, plant it in a pot, and it’ll take two weeks to grow. Once that’s done, you can take the young tree out and plant it as a harvested tree. While that means you only have to wait a year to have a producing tree (best case), it’s the best I can do unless I’m missing something. I don’t think it’s a huge balance issue, though, as tree yields are pretty miniscule (an apple tree produces less annually than a single moose kill).

I may be able to start a thread on the mod subforum tonight, but I’ve also gotta make sure it plays nice with the latest experimental as I’m a decent bit behind by now. We’ll see.

Uh, no, you can have the beans, honest

okay!

[Barhandar]

Because making gargantuan clay pots out of a small, portable kiln isn’t a thing. No clay item in game is small enough to put into a portable one, and it’s more work to try to jury rig a solution than to just nix the brick kiln entirely and depreciate any existing ones.

Canister, bowl, jug…

…increasing the volume and weight of brick kiln along with the rename…

Also, there’s no “gargantuan clay pots”. Yet.

[MormonPartyboat]

[quote=“Barhandar, post:32, topic:8768”]Canister, bowl, jug…

…increasing the volume and weight of brick kiln along with the rename…[/quote]

Lets take a step back and look at a modern ‘portable’ clay kiln, and for reference the ‘brick kiln’ item has a volume of 9 liters and a weight of 21 lbs. This one is one of the smaller kilns I could find that could probably fit the one liter clay jug within (though it would need to be pretty squat). The outer dimensions give it a volume of 137 liters (548 volume in-game), and it has a weight of 80 lbs, which is far from anything that I’d consider ‘portable’. And once you start going up to include other items, it just gets heavier and bigger. Modern electric ones that can contain the large clay pot would be in the realm of a thousand liters of volume (4000 volume in-game) and 400 lbs. On top of that, an equivalent charcoal fired kiln made out of metal rather than ceramics (the ‘brick kiln’ has a steel material) would be significantly larger and heavier, both for the charcoal holder (or stand) and for the much thicker metal needed to provide a consistent heat.

I COULD see an electric clay kiln being a vehicle component, but the ceramic insulation needed to not also set the vehicle on fire would put it outside the realm of survivors making the kiln itself. And I’d hardly consider that item to be ‘portable’ or even usable without being rigged to run off vehicle power. I could also see a possible jewelry kiln to let people make their own jewelry or clay arrowheads or whatever (which would probably still need to be heavier than the brick kiln, but would still be something that could feasibly fit into a backpack).

As I said: it’s more work to try to jury rig a solution than to just nix the brick kiln entirely and depreciate any existing ones. Hell, responding to this post took more work than what it took to implement the fix.

[Barhandar]

As I said: it’s more work to try to jury rig a solution than to just nix the brick kiln entirely and depreciate any existing ones. Hell, responding to this post took more work than what it took to implement the fix.

Now please do the same calculations for electric forge (which seems to work on resistant heating, not induction), which is perfectly portable and can be used for making really large things in the game.

Sometimes realism needs to take a step back and let the gameplay simplicity pass.

[MormonPartyboat]

Now please do the same calculations for electric forge (which seems to work on resistant heating, not induction), which is perfectly portable and can be used for making really large things in the game.

Setting aside your factual issues and condescension for now, why would you possibly think I’m obligated to fix everything if I decide to fix something?

Please be constructive if you are expecting a response - I’ve been putting in the effort to give you a thorough response, and I expect more than a flip retort in response.

[KA101]

I’m willing to make kilns/forges/etc require a fixed location if folks like.

[MormonPartyboat]

I’m willing to make kilns/forges/etc require a fixed location if folks like.

I don’t think it’s really needed for charcoal kilns or either forge - the existing kiln is far smaller and more annoying to use than the constructed one, and the vast majority of things made in forges can be made with small, portable ones since you only heat a part of the metal rather than needing to, say, stick a whole nodachi into a sealed container for hours. There is an argument that some of the bigger things (like a 55 gallon drum) wouldn’t really be craftable with a portable forge and would instead need a big one, but that sounds like a monstrous pain in the ass to sort through and figure out and wouldn’t really make a better game in the end to tier out a few niche items out like that.

It’s only really the proposed ceramic kiln where literally no clay item in the game could be made in one small enough to fit into a backpack that the reality bending becomes gratuitous. And since clay is more suited to the stationary, low-tech lifestyle, requiring clay crafting to be stationary dovetails nicely.

[MormonPartyboat]

Welp, work has been thoroughly kicking my ass the last few weeks, but I finally have a solid weekend off.

I fired it up with the latest experimental build (2745) and fixed a few conflicts (firestarter changes are neat!), and removed a constructed sled as it’s redundant now that wooden vehicle construction is in (whoo!).

I still have some work to do on it, but I’ll be putting it in The Lab shortly.

[Barhandar]

I fired it up with the latest experimental build (2745) and fixed a few conflicts (firestarter changes are neat!), and removed a constructed sled as it’s redundant now that wooden vehicle construction is in (whoo!).

Erm. Wooden vehicle construction was around since 0.A experimentals, possibly earlier. The only thing that changed recently is wooden construction actually requiring hammer and nails, not the regular wrench + welder set due to incorrect condition.

While you’re near firestarters, why not add the regular steel/ferrocerium (very rare find in cabins and sporting goods shops (why does CDDA have no hunter/fisher/wilderness living shops?)) spark lighter that is an unbreakable fire drill (extended_firestarter - both require tinder, so it’s abstracted, and “better fire drill” is lacking), and the gasoline match that is crafted using said ferrocerium lighter, some cotton balls, small plastic bottle, scrap metal (or a battery!) and a bit of copper wire and is a gasoline-fueled regular lighter that isn’t a freaking pain to use, unlike the current essentially-a-Zippo refillable lighter?

[MormonPartyboat]

The only thing that changed recently is wooden construction actually requiring hammer and nails, not the regular wrench + welder set due to incorrect condition.

That’s what I was talking about.

While you’re near firestarters, why not add the…

Neat stuff. I’ll have to think how to add it, using scrap metal + ferrocerium stick should be enough to make a simple firestarter that uses crafted tinder as ammo (whittled wood shavings, charcloth, etc). I’m not sure how the gasoline match would be any different (json wise) from the refillable lighter, though.

[Barhandar]

Neat stuff. I’ll have to think how to add it, using scrap metal + ferrocerium stick should be enough to make a simple firestarter that uses crafted tinder as ammo (whittled wood shavings, charcloth, etc). I’m not sure how the gasoline match would be any different (json wise) from the refillable lighter, though.

Regular fire drills require tinder in reality as well, so tinder is most likely implied instead. But if you go for tinder-fueled path, perhaps make it a full-on tinderbox instead of just the flint and steel?

By being a copy of regular lighter with different attributes, of course, unlike the annoying-toggle-it-on of the refillable one! And balanced via rarity of the requisite ferrocerium, and perhaps high survival/mechanics (to be consciously aware of “fuel-soaked cotton burns longer because evaporating fuel burns up first before cotton starts to char” thing) skill requirement. Or being in some obscure books.

[MormonPartyboat]

the annoying-toggle-it-on of the refillable one

Huh, that must have been added since I last used a refillable one (quite a while ago). Yeah, it’s way more annoying now.

[Coolthulhu]

By being a copy of regular lighter with different attributes, of course, unlike the annoying-toggle-it-on of the refillable one!

I’ll be fixing the regular refillable one relatively soon (making it usable by action menu without toggling etc.).
Hold on for now.

[Murphy]

Tbh, it’ll still be less convenient even if there’s no toggling. Because the menu is still an extra keypress.
Just like I don’t use the shocktonfa even though it holds better charge than a flashlight.

Though admittedly you don’t need to use a lighter all that often, compared to a flashlight. Especially once you get a mess kit of any kind.

EDIT: Or you mean the new action menu mapped to “%”?

[Coolthulhu]

EDIT: Or you mean the new action menu mapped to “%”?

Yeah. I updated it quite a bit, it’s just that it won’t get in until the stable is out.

Once I finish it, refillable lighter will be usable from ‘%’ menu without toggling. That way it will be only 3 keypresses (’%’, fire keybind, direction), like with matches and lighters.

[MormonPartyboat]

EDIT: Or you mean the new action menu mapped to “%”?

Man, I really need to pay more attention to new features.