# When does dodge become good?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [November 21, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561 "2018-11-21T13:09:56Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 17\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Krisu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/krisu/32/11683_2.png) [@Krisu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Krisu)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/1 "2018-11-21T13:09:56Z")

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I’m getting a little tired of the heavy survivor look, and I wonder what level of dodge is good enough. Also, I hate getting guranteed damage from hulks and brutes so how much dodge is good? I’d prefer a 90%+ chance of dodge if anyone knows the exact numbers

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**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/2 "2018-11-21T17:08:59Z")

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If you have 4-6 dodge, Uncanny Dodge CBM and the mutations Hollow bones, whiskers, fluffy tail and unassuming, you can pretty much dodge anything. (Bullets included)

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/3 "2018-11-21T19:45:59Z")

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The caveat there being that you only get one dodge per turn, ie 100 ticks. Add Zui Quan to the mix, though, and dodge gets ludicrous, since it gives you like 100 dodges per turn.

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**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/4 "2018-11-21T19:50:08Z")

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> [@Mantar](#):
>
> Add Zui Quan to the mix

Yeah, I’ve totally forgot the Zui Quan.

> [@Mantar](#):
>
> it gives you like 100 dodges per turn

It gives you “infinite” dodges

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/5 "2018-11-21T19:51:44Z")

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I don’t think it’s actually infinite, but I haven’t checked the code. But a dodge every single tick is close enough to infinite as to make no difference.

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**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/6 "2018-11-21T20:06:28Z")

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> [@Mantar](#):
>
> don’t think it’s actually infinite

It can’t be literally infinite. It’s just a MASSIVE amount of dodges, way more than you’ll ever be able to use.

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/7 "2018-11-21T20:52:02Z")

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Then why’d you say infinite?

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**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/9 "2018-11-21T20:55:43Z")

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Sorry, I misunderstood you, in the Zui Quan description it says that you have infinite dodges.

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/11 "2018-11-21T20:57:51Z")

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Ah, I see. It’s cool.

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/12 "2018-11-21T21:33:47Z")

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Does Zui Quan require an unarmed melee attack to let you do the crazy number of dodges, or can you get a hit with a pistol or something, then drunkenly dodge everything? And does it work in conjunction with the uncanny dodge CBM?

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**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/13 "2018-11-21T21:46:23Z")

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> [@nameless\_survivor](#):
>
> Does Zui Quan require an unarmed melee attack to let you do the crazy number of dodges

It require at least one melee attack.

> [@nameless\_survivor](#):
>
> And does it work in conjunction with the uncanny dodge CBM?

I don’t know exactly, the dodge bonus is affected by intelligence but a (3) melee (3) unarmed Zui Quan fighter get not only the crazy dodges but a crazy number of counters too!

Almost any enemy that gets too close will be insta-killed. It’s so convenient that you don’t even have to attack them directly! Just walk past the horde and watch as every zombie around you explode.

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**Author:** ![Eastwardrope91](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/eastwardrope91/32/3313_2.png) [@Eastwardrope91](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Eastwardrope91)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/14 "2018-11-21T23:21:30Z")

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I’m pretty sure the National Guard base robots can overpower the dodge ability even with “unlimited” dodges per turn as each one has a machine gun which fires I believe 5 shots a turn 3 of which are almost guaranteed to hit at any decent range without crazy dodge. Add in 5-10 of them and you quickly have 20 shots that need dodging per turn(each one would like get at least two shots that could hit) all in a matter of seconds add in sniper bots which have near perfect aim when it comes to potential hits (5 or so per base) firing once a couple turns and the engineering bots and traps and you will quickly have 50 plus shots aiming at you plus fire (engineering bots fire shots which deal damage and cause fire). Add all this together and I don’t think dodge will save you entirely and I believe you will have to rely upon armour when dealing with them. Bit of a niche case though. Only other place this could happen is in the hostile apartment/hostile MIL base (NPCs not the robot one). Even then hostile static AI is broken so most the time they won’t move to attack you.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AskaHope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/askahope/32/6691_2.png) [@AskaHope](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AskaHope)\
**Post date:** [November 22, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/15 "2018-11-22T01:32:41Z")

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Why bother dodging, when you can use a heavy power armor?

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/16 "2018-11-23T13:50:59Z")

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Why exactly are the bots in the national guard so crazy? I know it is a base. But I find better loot outside than in. Whats the point? By time you gear up outside to GET in side. You are better equipped than what crap you would end up with raiding a guard base. Plus the bots mess you up before making the fence most of the time.

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**Author:** ![Erk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/erk/32/3871_2.png) [@Erk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Erk)\
**Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/17 "2018-11-23T17:07:10Z")

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Well, it’s not feature-complete, so that’s probably part of it.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/18 "2018-11-23T20:38:17Z")

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Ok. That explains it. I was under the impression it was complete.

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/when-does-dodge-become-good/17561/19 "2018-11-24T19:26:01Z")

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I raided it with shit gear, but I used an old apc with a mounted gun to kill them. Its how I managed to get a lot of my early equipment, along with my deathmobile. Found a tank there, and a shitload of storage batteries off of the robots. Raided the armories and ammo dumps for gear.